Login / Register
 
Unpaid-Intern Lawsuits Explained
New Reply
Subscribe
wishihadalife
Thread Starter
#1
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #1
Gear Head
 
wishihadalife's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 30

Thread Starter
wishihadalife is offline
Unpaid-Intern Lawsuits Explained

For all the up and coming sound designers/engineers, things might have gotten a little harder:

Quote:
Why are so many interns suing their employers?

It started on June 11, when a federal district court judge in New York ruled that Fox Searchlight Pictures (NWS), a film distribution company, should have compensated two unpaid production interns for the 2010 movie Black Swan. The pair had performed basic chores such as manning phones, fetching coffee, and taking out the trash. According to the judge, “Searchlight received the benefits of their unpaid work, which otherwise would have required paid employees.” The victory opened the door for more disgruntled interns. On June 13 a former intern for W magazine and another for the New Yorker filed a lawsuit against publisher Condé Nast claiming they had been paid less than $1 an hour. On June 17 a former Atlantic Records intern filed a lawsuit against Warner Music Group citing unpaid wages for office work performed from October 2007 to May 2008. Eight former magazine interns collectively filed suit against the publisher Hearst in 2011, but the case was dismissed in May because the judge denied its class-action status. Those interns have requested an appeal.

They were just answering phones and doing errands. How much money can they possibly get?

California’s minimum wage is $8 an hour, so it’s not as if the Black Swan interns expect a windfall. According to Juno Turner, who represents the Fox Searchlight Pictures, Condé Nast, and Hearst plaintiffs, these lawsuits are more about fairness than money. Fox has plans to appeal. Both Condé Nast and Warner Music Group declined to comment on pending litigation.

What does the Black Swan ruling mean for other employers?

Companies in the U.S. can legally hire unpaid interns as long as they follow six U.S. Department of Labor guidelines under the Fair Labor Standards Act. The law says that interns cannot “displace regular employees.” It also stipulates that “the employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the intern.” But Turner argues that unpaid arrangements will disappear in the wake of the verdict: “I think it would be the very rare internship that would meet the criteria that are set forth in this decision.” Allison Cheston, a career coach who teaches a workshop at New York University about how to land your dream job, agrees. “The guidelines laid out by the Department of Labor for internships are pretty strict,” she says. “For most corporations, we’re heading in the direction of internships being paid positions eventually.”

Don’t unpaid internships lead to entry-level jobs?

Yes. According to the National Association of Colleges and Employers, 37 percent of 2012 graduates who worked in unpaid internships received offers of paying jobs. Graduates who worked in paid internships were offered jobs 60 percent of the time.

So did the Black Swan interns make it easier or harder for young workers to break into the workforce?

If companies decide that offering unpaid internships leaves them exposed to lawsuits—and paid internships are too expensive—it could be an unfortunate development for college students willing to do free grunt work. According to Heather Huhman, a career adviser and author of Lies, Damned Lies & Internships, the people filing lawsuits have missed the point. Unpaid internships are opportunities for exposure to the inner workings of business, not money. “A job listed on a résumé wouldn’t impress me just because it was a paid position,” she says. “What matters is the experience you got from that job.”

What about internships for college credit?

“Most of the top schools in the country won’t accept an internship as academic credit anymore,” Cheston says. The Yale University website, for example, says the school “does not award credit for internships. This policy is not unique to Yale; it’s shared by all Ivy League institutions and some liberal arts colleges.” According to Cheston, there’s one type of company that may still get away without paying interns: nonprofits.

Why is that?

The Department of Labor gives nonprofits a free pass, Cheston says, even stating in its own intern guidelines that “unpaid internships in the public sector and for nonprofit charitable organizations, where the intern volunteers without expectation of compensation, are generally permissible.”
Source: Unpaid-Intern Lawsuits Explained - Businessweek


This kind of sucks for a person like myself. I just got my first internship and sadly, they're going to stop their internship program by the end of the summer. Many companies are following suit. Wanted to see everybody else's thoughts on this.
#2
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Henchman's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: LA, USA
Posts: 8,583
My Recordings/Credits

Henchman is online now
Yep. A couple of whiney people, with no personal responibity, have now made it harder for people to gain access in places they could never set for in.
If you take an internship, and don't like what it's offering once you start, then quit.
It's up to you to make sure even before starting, by asking at the interview, what your tasks will be. Good interns, regardless of the actual work they end up doing during the internship, make positive impressions, and create contacts, and maintain those contacts, that they then can exploit when they are ready to find a job.

Sueing long after you have left is pathetic.
These folks sound like entitled brats. Who probably sucked, and nobody liked.
I know enough people who started as interns, and turned it not a career.

I know one AP who moved to LA 5 years ago, and started at the bottom. And is now an AP for a very popular show.
Some people succeed, seem fail.
Quote
1
#3
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #3
Lives for gear
 
CJ1973's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,219

CJ1973 is online now
This probably fk*d it up for a lot of future interns who are genuinely looking to get that hands on experience from top producers and engineers whilst they have a supplemental income such as college funds to support themselves during that period.
__________________
www.MusicIntersection.com
Quote
1
#4
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Reverb's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 616

Reverb is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by wishihadalife View Post
For all the up and coming sound designers/engineers, things might have gotten a little harder:



Source: Unpaid-Intern Lawsuits Explained - Businessweek


This kind of sucks for a person like myself. I just got my first internship and sadly, they're going to stop their internship program by the end of the summer. Many companies are following suit. Wanted to see everybody else's thoughts on this.
I simply have trouble understanding why in a place like the US there are so many unpaid internships at corporations that are rolling in money.
How hard is it to pay minimum wage to someone? Even sweatshop workers in third world countries earn something.

It's mind boggling to me. A major motion picture and leading magazine can't afford the cost of minimum wage ?

If a business needs unpaid interns to survive, it deserves to fail. The unpaid intern concept is simply a recipe for abuse on the part of employers. In a country where the rich have such a disdain for people expecting something for nothing, it's simply absurd that this unpaid internship concept is so prevalent.

Maybe those companies should just find a way outsource those unpaid internships overseas.
Quote
5
#5
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #5
Lives for gear
 
NYCruiser's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Yonkers, NY
Posts: 1,671

NYCruiser is offline
Definitely agree. Pay the interns and you get to evaluate their work ethic on tasks they may not want to perform as well as train them. If they can't do anything to make themselves worth $300/week they had better just stay in school.


Sent from my iPhone
__________________
PapaPugs Studio
Yonkers, NY
Quote
1
#6
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #6
Lives for gear
 
loujudson's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,754

loujudson is offline
I am older, and have always worked freelance and self-employed, even when staffing studios and clubs (as independent contractor, which means I can turn down any specific gig without getting fired!). But I think that an intern should ONLY accept a position that gives them direct experience doing what they want to do, as a kind of OJT. Being an intern and making coffe and cleaning toilets is only an intern for a janitor or waitress gig! If you are assiting in a studio situation, maybe cleaning recorders and sweeping the studio after assisting on sessions might be fine, but being an unpaid menial not learning your chosen specialty is something a prospective intern should be smart enough to not accept. Boot-licking is not a studio job, it should be done by A&R staff. ;-)
Quote
1
#7
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,981

2manyrocks is offline
One problem is that the value of what they learn from an unpaid internship might very well be more valuable than their value to the "employer."

Where it becomes abusive is where the employer is just using them for free labor without giving them any real training, IMO.
#8
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Benmrx's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4,578

Benmrx is offline
What a bunch of babies. Interns are unpaid....., that's why they're an intern. In the the studio world there are generally no 'openings'..., you have to create a position for yourself. I've interned in the past and its turned into real, paying work. I'm actually interning right now (at age 34) again because I'm looking to grow as a person and as an engineer/sound designer. It's up to me to make something out of it...., not the studio owner, engineers, etc. My success is not not their responsibility. Do I make coffee? Yep. Do I sweep the floor? Yep. Do I look for EVERY opportunity to be the best I can? Yep.

Will this internship turn into a paying position? That's the wrong question to ask IMO. The real question is what can I do to get the most out of this experience. Anyone with real drive and passion will realise just how powerful an internship can be.

Anyone can run Pro Tools, ANYONE. Anyone can rotoscope, anyone can retouch a photograph. The technical side of this whole business is less than half of what it's all about. Interning is sort of like high school. Just suck it up and learn how to 'be in the studio' that your at...., because every studio is different.

Here you are..., your at a studio where there's producers, mixers, directors, sound designers, talent up the ****ing wazoo, and all you can do is complain about not getting a fair chance?????? Your here!!!! This IS your chance you big baby.

All that said, you do you have to have some brains. Look around at the studio your at. Are people generally happy, or does everyone hate everyone? Are the engineeres totally burnt out, hating their jobs, or are they still stoked on what they do. You should be able to read that kind of situation fairly quickly. Be smart. It's no one else's responsibility.
__________________
"Sorry man I played guitar instead of going to school." -- James Lugo
#9
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Ol' Betsey's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: London
Posts: 2,304

Ol' Betsey is offline
Why pay an intern? Well why pay an intern when you can pay someone that actually knows what they are doing?

Interns generally don't really know what they're doing. Sure they might have been taught some stuff in the classroom but usually have no real world experience.

I reckon 99% (Note: I didn't say 100%) of the people here that say interns should be paid would never hire an "intern" anyway. They either do everything themselves or, fairly, have paid assistants that know their job.

I interned at Electric Lady. I basically ran around getting take-away pizzas at all hours and cleaning cables... Oh and reading the SSL manual and spending the downtime learning the automation and patchbays.

Did I ever think I should be getting paid for that? Did I FUKK. But then again I wasn't a spoiled brat growing up.

R.
__________________
"Thanks, guys. Nice to know I've been missed. I've spent the last six months or so contemplating the meaning of life, the universe and everything, and have come to the conclusion that it's not about the gear, but about the gear!" (maisonvague)

When I haven't any blue I use red. (Pablo Picasso)

Ol' Betsey Satan - The Original Flower
Shop 8 track - "She fought long and
she fought hard..."
#10
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: San Francisco area
Posts: 3,206

philper is offline
The hell of it is that even just getting coffee and lunch orders inside a business that's of interest can be a learning experience--breathing the same air, overhearing the politics, seeing how people conduct themselves. The problem I have with this whole scene is that it requires that the intern have some other source of income to live--family, savings etc, and that lets out a whole lot of folks who don't have those things. I would rather see entry-level menial jobs pay min. wage, so that a clever person might be able to scrape by, rather than having no pay at all, which means that disadvantaged people can't participate.

philp
#11
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Reverb's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 616

Reverb is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' Betsey View Post
Why pay an intern? Well why pay an intern when you can pay someone that actually knows what they are doing?

Interns generally don't really know what they're doing. Sure they've been taught some stuff in the classroom but usually have no real world experience.

I reckon 99% (Note: I didn't say 100%) of the people here that say interns should be paid would never hire an "intern" anyway. They either do everything themselves or, fairly, have paid assistants that know their job.

I interned at Electric Lady. I basically ran around getting take-away pizzas at all hours and cleaning cables... Oh and reading the SSL manual and spending the downtime learning the automation and patchbays.

Did I ever think I should be getting paid for that? Did I FUKK. But then again I wasn't a spoiled brat growing up.

R.
Oddly enough, there was a point in time where companies actually paid to train their employees. Today, all that burden has been placed on the shoulders of students who are expected to indebt themselves to learn professions at expensive schools and then slave away at unpaid internships.

People don't benefit from the status quo, shareholders do.

It isn't that hard to imagine a better balance. The system currently puts all the economic risk on the shoulders of the employees. It's unfair - plain and simple.
#12
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Ol' Betsey's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: London
Posts: 2,304

Ol' Betsey is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
The problem I have with this whole scene is that it requires that the intern have some other source of income to live--family, savings etc, and that lets out a whole lot of folks who don't have those things.
Nope.

I was 21, shared a (small) apartment with 3 others and worked 3-4 days a week on another job to pay my bills. Didn't have lots of spending money but damn... I was learning in Electric Lady!

Just the confidence that gave me in the follow-through with the rest of my life/career was worth it in gold.

You gotta make sacrifices.

R.
#13
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Ol' Betsey's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: London
Posts: 2,304

Ol' Betsey is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverb View Post
Oddly enough, there was a point in time where companies actually paid to train their employees.
Yeah and that was also a time where when one learned a skill you were expected to stay within the company and work your way to the top.

Nowadays there is no loyalty. You take what you can get and move on.

You don't like your job? Just quit. You don't like your career? Quit and find something new.

Do I think that's wrong? No not at all. But do I think that an employer should have to pay someone just to see if they like what they're doing? No.

This type of work takes severe dedication. You gotta sift through the chancers and wannabes and dreamers.

Internships work. Not always I'm sure but a lot of times they do act as a great filter.

R.
#14
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Sir Chris's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Location: Miami, FL.
Posts: 592

Sir Chris is offline
I know of a few high-end, high profile studios that would routinely hire interns for a few months giving them this false hope that if they perform well enough they might get a paid position. In reality what they do is let them go after 90 days and hire new interns and they would do this over and over again all year round without ever actually hiring anyone. Those that did intern said all they did was take out trash, fetch coffee, etc and never got to touch the board or do anything of that sort.

This was their bs way of getting free labor. They didn't give a shit about the intern learning anything or getting anything that would be considered "on the job training or experience".

So to hell with these companies. Interns didn't **** this up. It was the companies abuse of power and exploitation of needy/naive young people.

Its like someone else posted. Its kinda ludicrous that an american multi-million dollar company can't afford to pay minimum wage?

This all goes back to this old school, older generation baby boomers bs mentality of winners and losers. Where's the younger generation has a very different "equality/fairness" view of the world.

Sent from my LG-E970
#15
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Henchman's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: LA, USA
Posts: 8,583
My Recordings/Credits

Henchman is online now
Funny. I started as an intern years ago. And I worked at the same time.
Didnt hurt me.
And I wouldn't be where I am today had I not done that.
#16
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #16
Lives for gear
 
CJ1973's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,219

CJ1973 is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverb View Post
How hard is it to pay minimum wage to someone? Even sweatshop workers in third world countries earn something.

It's mind boggling to me. A major motion picture and leading magazine can't afford the cost of minimum wage ?
I agree with you but reality is it's corporate America. America was founded based on pure economic profits and capitalism (not saying it's good or bad). This is why the largest corporations and some of the greatest inventions are all American. it's about squeezing the last amount of energy out of a situation or person for maximum profits. I see this as I did corporate work myself and my wife is in high-tech (18hr days, even though 1/3 is working from home).
It's what it is because at a higher level, the bonuses can be amazing, so the idea is one does that hard yards and hangs in there, works smart, plays hard, they have a fantastic future.
#17
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #17
Gear addict
 
Joined: Aug 2007

ThisIsSka is offline
#18
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #18
Lives for gear
 
loujudson's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,754

loujudson is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverb View Post
Oddly enough, there was a point in time where companies actually paid to train their employees. Today, all that burden has been placed on the shoulders of students who are expected to indebt themselves to learn professions at expensive schools and then slave away at unpaid internships.

People don't benefit from the status quo, shareholders do.

It isn't that hard to imagine a better balance. The system currently puts all the economic risk on the shoulders of the employees. It's unfair - plain and simple.
Ther was also a time when the skills required were specific and precise. Now there is so much pretty good equipment available to amateurs and musicians that Everybody think they can engineer or produce.

/rant mode: I think one of the worst marketing ploys is the lie that a box that plugs in between a mic and a computer can be called a "studio" - it ain't, it's just a piece of hardware. A studio in the real sense is ( or was) a facility with trained professional personnel, a good business model with trackable results, and a carefully designed space. And some gear.

Rant over\
#19
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #19
Lives for gear
 
king2070lplaya's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,340
My Recordings/Credits

king2070lplaya is online now
Surprise surprise, Americas young folks are tired of working for peanuts. How much longer can we legitimately go on being the land of the free and the home of those working 80+ hours a week for a living wage?

"unpaid internships" is a hot word for "well-bred slave", ie someone who can work full time hours for no money (think about it) so it's nice to see this huge fallacy get called out for what it is. Even if many folks on here aren't bright enough to see past the spin that's been applied to the OPs lovely cited article. "Those stupid lazy fools" you all keep talking about just won a class action lawsuit or three, in my eyes making them neither stupid nor lazy!

Here's what's going to happen (I should say "how things have been trending for the past 15 years but will now get public attention with the creation of these scapegoats"):

Places that had unpaid internships will stop having such positions, until like the obliging southerners they realize that the work cannot be done without those inskilled performing their menial tasks, at which point they'll either create a paid opportunity or find a new way to take advantage of some poor sap..... Maybe all those SoCal studios that are still open will start hiring workers from California's vast agricultural sector... You see what I mean?

Only time will tell.
__________________
Kevin Bourassa
Peridot Sound Mobile Recording Service
peridotsound@gmail.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Eventually you should deploy the most expensive and best Mic you can get. It should be hideously expensive.
Quote
2
#20
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #20
Lives for gear
 
king2070lplaya's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,340
My Recordings/Credits

king2070lplaya is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverb View Post
I simply have trouble understanding why in a place like the US there are so many unpaid internships at corporations that are rolling in money.
How hard is it to pay minimum wage to someone? Even sweatshop workers in third world countries earn something.

It's mind boggling to me. A major motion picture and leading magazine can't afford the cost of minimum wage ?

If a business needs unpaid interns to survive, it deserves to fail. The unpaid intern concept is simply a recipe for abuse on the part of employers. In a country where the rich have such a disdain for people expecting something for nothing, it's simply absurd that this unpaid internship concept is so prevalent.

Maybe those companies should just find a way outsource those unpaid internships overseas.
This is perfect. I wish I could be so eloquent and to the point!
#21
29th June 2013
Old 29th June 2013
  #21
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 606

smurfyou is offline
While I don't agree with these lawsuits there are clear legal definitions of what an intern is. Unpaid employee is not in that definition. Internships and apprenticeships are valuable if they are executed properly.
__________________
~Will
Quote
1
#22
29th June 2013
Old 29th June 2013
  #22
Lives for gear
 
Benmrx's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4,578

Benmrx is offline
I like that its everyones responsibity (except the intern) to make their passion/dream worth-while. Get a job on the side, or are you too good to flip burgers because you spent $30k on school?

This is the EXACT reason a TON of places won't even take interns from certain institutions.
#23
29th June 2013
Old 29th June 2013
  #23
Lives for gear
 
JSt0rm's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,702

JSt0rm is offline
I did a unpaid internship. I think everyone I know has done at least 1. This is going to be bad for the young people though. I know a fairly large corporation that if I said 1 half if the name you would all know exactly who I'm talking about that has removed all intern programs. They will not risk lawsuit.
#24
29th June 2013
Old 29th June 2013
  #24
Lives for gear
 
king2070lplaya's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,340
My Recordings/Credits

king2070lplaya is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benmrx View Post
I like that its everyones responsibity (except the intern) to make their passion/dream worth-while. Get a job on the side, or are you too good to flip burgers because you spent $30k on school?

This is the EXACT reason a TON of places won't even take interns from certain institutions.
You fight that straw man! No sense trying to understand what those who you disagree with are actually trying to communicate.
#25
29th June 2013
Old 29th June 2013
  #25
Lives for gear
 
Benmrx's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4,578

Benmrx is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by king2070lplaya View Post
You fight that straw man! No sense trying to understand what those who you disagree with are actually trying to communicate.
Bizarre-o world.

Have fun getting paid minimum wage to take out the garbage.
#26
29th June 2013
Old 29th June 2013
  #26
Lives for gear
 
king2070lplaya's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,340
My Recordings/Credits

king2070lplaya is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benmrx View Post
Bizarre-o world.

Have fun getting paid minimum wage to take out the garbage.
No, it's actually unpaid, but I'm grateful for the opportunity ;-)
#27
29th June 2013
Old 29th June 2013
  #27
Lives for gear
 
king2070lplaya's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,340
My Recordings/Credits

king2070lplaya is online now
The thing that just confounds me is that all of you that support this unpaid thing, whether it was how you came up or not, seem to think that these companies provide unpaid internships out of a sense of altruism, and that they are the sad, unjustly treated victims in this whole thing? The reality, and the reason that such laws are in place, is that many institutions don't treat unpaid interns like the students they are supposed to be. Look up the definition of "internship", and explain to me how, beyond it teaching you what slobs and caffeine addicts many studio-going musicians and engineers can be, cleaning toilets and schlepping coffee is providing "on-the-job training" to interns pursuing a career in recording?

Also, can these institutions realistically continue manage business in the same way without that unpaid assistance? Some perhaps, but surely not all.

I can empathize with someone who interns at a movie studio, thinking they might actually learn something about film production, but instead spends months schlepping coffee or whatnot. And I think it's rather telling that many of you jump to belittling these people rather than actually trying to understand their complaints.

Just because a system is in place doesn't make it right, or just, or "the best way to do things". History is trending towards fairness and equality. Try and pick the side that wont make you look like an arrogant butt to your grandkids generation in 30-50 years.
Quote
2
#28
29th June 2013
Old 29th June 2013
  #28
Lives for gear
 
CJ1973's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,219

CJ1973 is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by king2070lplaya View Post

Just because a system is in place doesn't make it right, or just, or "the best way to do things". History is trending towards fairness and equality. Try and pick the side that wont make you look like an arrogant butt to your grandkids generation in 30-50 years.
I humbly disagree. The end of the social, political correctness revolution is near. Its about business again so a lot of folks know you pay your dues to get places. Hey, if Max Martin gave me an internship, I'd pay him. It's not like intern is sitting around. We pay for college. It can be argued that we may have to pay for some experience too, which gets us way a head in the curve.
#29
29th June 2013
Old 29th June 2013
  #29
Lives for gear
 
king2070lplaya's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,340
My Recordings/Credits

king2070lplaya is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ1973 View Post
I humbly disagree. The end of the social, political correctness revolution is near. Its about business again so a lot of folks know you pay your dues to get places. Hey, if Max Martin gave me an internship, I'd pay him. It's not like intern is sitting around. We pay for college. It can be argued that we may have to pay for some experience too, which gets us way a head in the curve.
I'm not arguing that dues don't have to be paid, or that free gigs shouldn't be taken. I'm arguing against an institutionalized system that takes advantage of young people's naivety, inexperience and over-abundance in the workforce.

Again I reiterate, how is schlepping coffee or any other menial task teaching me about recording?

Also, why is it so taboo to suggest that an individual gets paid for the hours they put in? If I'm standing there watching Michael Brauer or whoever mix a track, I'm happy to observe and do that for free, thats better than going to class or reading a book, but if I'm out running around grabbing coffee for you? Cleaning up your poo poo? Yeah I'd sue too (if I could afford the lawyer that is).

You say to me that I'm spoiled to expect payment for an internship. I say to you pragmatic folks that you have no sense of self-worth if you think you need to be treated like trash before your life can be worth anything. This ain't Bangladesh, and all the soldiers and servicemen in this countries proud history didn't fight and protect your liberty to let a cash-flushed company like 20th century Fox treat you like a slave. Have some self-respect for Christsakes!

And that's what this situation is about, the abuse of power in regards to an interns duties. An internship is there to provide a job-specific learning opportunity, through observation or hands-on experience. The law in Cali treats an internship like an apprenticeship. It's about time that legally a spade was called a spade, IMO.
#30
29th June 2013
Old 29th June 2013
  #30
Lives for gear
 
crosscutred's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Bradford UK
Posts: 578

crosscutred is offline
If I am paying someone to clean then I expect them to stay out of the studio while I'm working. They aren't going to learn anything. The ideal applicant will have no interest in the world of audio.

On the other hand if I'm going to let someone observe and ask questions, then sit down with them and share my knowledge on something it's taken me years to learn..... What should I get out of it?
I have observed that many interns come to my place incapable of simply recording a band and leave with some idea of what it takes. The smart ones even land jobs. What's that worth?

I do also simply charge people to learn how to record..... It's not cheap, but I don't ask them to clean.

If I have to pay my interns then I will be unable to offer the opportunity to learn here except for a fair rate..... Which confines learning to the wealthy.

Sucks doesn't it?

Sent from my HTC One X+
__________________
Alex Eden
www.factorystreet.co.uk
Quote
1
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Topic:
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.