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XMON & Bass Management
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noisefreak
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#1
8th February 2013
Old 8th February 2013
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XMON & Bass Management

I am going to surround (finally) in my studio and bringing in a D-Command ICON with XMON as my main controller. When going over the wiring I am scratching my head when it comes to the sub. I will use a single set of monitors for stereo and surround. The sub ensures full range monitoring so it takes 80Hz and below and sends the rest to the monitors. The way it's set up now is the L/R output goes to the sub and then from the sub to the monitors for full range. The sub handles the crossover. Pretty typical.

BUT - when I go to 5.1 and add a center, left surround, right surround, LFE - how can I get the signal from those channels (aside from the LFE) to the sub for full range monitoring? The solution would seem to be a bass management controller like the Studio-Tech M65 but it's been discontinued.

If I go directly to each speaker from the XMON I'm not sure how to get the low end from all those outputs to the sub. The LFE shouldn't be a problem since the sub has a dedicated LFE input.

Anyone have a solution? I'd love to use the XMON since it will come with the D-Command but am not opposed to a monitor controller. My issue is finding a controller that has analog inputs/outputs with bass management.

The Studio-Tech line has built in BM but most of their new units are digital in. Dangerous ST/SR doesn't say anything about BM on their site though they do say they have a filter for the sub.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Nick
#2
8th February 2013
Old 8th February 2013
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brandoncross is offline
You need a sub the does mass management like my jbl lsr 6312p. If not that, then a bass management controller like the blue sky bmc. They are cheap on eBay. Lastly, you can get bass management done with a plug in like waves 360 bundle but plug ins are software dependent. I much prefer hardware.
#3
9th February 2013
Old 9th February 2013
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There are three different ways to do this.

1. If the sub has LCR inputs for splitting out the low freqs then you can use it and leave your surrounds un-bass managed. This can be done with certain JBL systems, but other subs only accommodate left and inputs, so you can't use them for surround system BM.

2. Get a dedicated bass management controller. Blue Sky makes a very good one called the BMC that also has an ethernet remote with master volume, channel trims, solos and mutes for surround systems.

3. If you have a processing box like the BSS BLU16 (there are others), it will have crossovers, summing mixers and routing options so that you can design your own bass management system and it can also handle delays for time alignment as well as monitor EQ and calibration interfaces.

I have used all three methods, but currently am using the bass management in my JBL 6312 sub for the front speakers with no BM on the surrounds. It's easy and sounds excellent with my particular system, but if your satellites are small, you may need to use BM on your surrounds as well, in which case you need to use one of the other methods (unless your sub has 5 inputs, which I haven't seen). The Blue Sky BMC retails for about $1400 I think, and is very simple to set up and use. The BSS BLU16 costs closer to $3000 and is more complicated to set up, but it also offers all the other functions that are very important to a properly calibrated and EQed system. I bought a used BSS Soundweb 9088 on eBay for under $500, which is essentially an older version of the BLU16, and it works great. I use it for Monitor EQ, time alignment and calibration and use the sub for BM. I used to use the 9088 for BM for my previous surround speakers, because the sub only had 2 inputs for the front speakers, but decided to try out the JBL 6312's BM when I bought new speakers. It works well.
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Gary Gegan
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9th February 2013
Old 9th February 2013
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Willeyh is offline
Why do you need bass management in 5.1? Did you use it before in your stereo setup?

The dot 1 is a discrete channel and use it as such.

Maybe I'm reading this all wrong, and if so, dont take my post into consediration.

Can you not use the D-Command as a "calibrated volume controller" with the XMON? (Depending on your calibration though, but that was the case when I last worked on a D-Command/XMON setup).

I may be wrong though.
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9th February 2013
Old 9th February 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willeyh View Post
Why do you need bass management in 5.1? Did you use it before in your stereo setup?

The dot 1 is a discrete channel and use it as such.

Maybe I'm reading this all wrong, and if so, dont take my post into consediration.

Can you not use the D-Command as a "calibrated volume controller" with the XMON? (Depending on your calibration though, but that was the case when I last worked on a D-Command/XMON setup).

I may be wrong though.
Bass management has two functions. The first is to extend the low frequency response of the satellite (main) speakers to extremes that small woofers cannot reproduce at required levels. The second function is to optimize the flatness of the reproduction of low frequencies, which is typically problematic due to the acoustics of small rooms. Small rooms have more issues with bass modes and SBIR due to geometry, physics and often less upscale installations. Routing the low frequencies to a single subwoofer that is placed in the optimal position results in flatter, more consistent extended low frequency reproduction. Because low frequencies below about 80Hz are omnidirectional when calibrated at unity gain and because psychoacoustics result in tricking the brain into perceiving that they emanate from the direction where the higher frequency components of the sound emanate, the fact that all the low frequencies come from a single source is not generally apparent.
noisefreak
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10th February 2013
Old 10th February 2013
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Yep the main reason is I need the sub to work with my stereo setup as well as with 5.1 and it has to extend the 'satellites' to full frequency as well as reproduce the LFE channel. Right now the bass management is handled by the sub for stereo but it only has a left and right input. If it had a center channel input I would be totally fine leaving the surrounds unmanaged since I'd likely apply filtering in my session to any signal I sent there anyway.

I'd love to use the XMON since it seems like a shame to not use a control room section that comes with the ICON - I just recently saw ManagerMAX from Martinsound which is a standalone bass manager. I emailed martinsound yesterday to see if I could just place it in line between my XMON and monitors to solve my problem. Anyone have experience with that? I'm guessing it's the same as using the Blue Sky BMC or the now defunct M-65 from Studio-Technologies.

That should save me from needing to remove the XMON and use a whole different monitor controller just so I can have bass management. Correct?
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10th February 2013
Old 10th February 2013
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There is nothing preventing anyone from using the X-Mon with a Bass Managed system. I use the X-Mon with my bass managed system and it works great. The bass management takes place after the X-Mon output stage.
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10th February 2013
Old 10th February 2013
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I didn'y get on with the XMON so we ended up with an off board monitor system.
I personally think you need a system that can switch bass management in and out.
I prefer to do all film work with a discrete sub as this is what Dolby requires of theatres outside of the US. But then you need BM in to accurately work on DVD releases esp when switching to a smaller alt monitor setup. The fact that almost all the theatres I have wotked in use the XMON (or not) in different ways speaks volumes about DIGI/Avids implementation. It ought to be good but I have found it pretty dumb and clumsy.
The system we used for along time had a great calibrated mon level, selected by a button and an led that went out of the master volume was a adjusted.
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10th February 2013
Old 10th February 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nzl62 View Post
I didn'y get on with the XMON so we ended up with an off board monitor system.
I personally think you need a system that can switch bass management in and out.
I prefer to do all film work with a discrete sub as this is what Dolby requires of theatres outside of the US. But then you need BM in to accurately work on DVD releases esp when switching to a smaller alt monitor setup. The fact that almost all the theatres I have wotked in use the XMON (or not) in different ways speaks volumes about DIGI/Avids implementation. It ought to be good but I have found it pretty dumb and clumsy.
The system we used for along time had a great calibrated mon level, selected by a button and an led that went out of the master volume was a adjusted.
There are a lot of people who don't like the X-Mon. I use it any without major issues, but you're right, it isn't particularly well designed. But anyway, whether or not you use the X-Mon or any other monitor controller doesn't necessarily need to affect the Bass Management. If you are using a separate processor for your crossovers, EQ, etc., then they are independent of each other. BTW, If you don't have specific EQ settings for BM in and out your monitor system will be out of whack.
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