Rerecording Mixers Chime In! Boom or Lav?
Old 6th February 2013
  #31
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Interesting to see some of you guys prefer adr on lavs. My experience has been the total opposite. In fact, all the adr sessions I have done including ones with studios in L.A, I was always asked to prioritize the boom, and not lav.
But I see the point, if the room is crap, positioning the boom might be trickier than lav.
In my book, a well positioned boom in a good room is still number one.
Old 6th February 2013
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
You are very lucky.

Here, the low budget tv is two to three days for dialog editorial.
And regular budget, about 4.
bish bash bosh eh? One editor 2-3 days? They're kinda just making it run then aren't they?
Old 6th February 2013
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nzl62 View Post
bish bash bosh eh? One editor 2-3 days? They're kinda just making it run then aren't they?
One editor.
They are efficient.
Old 6th February 2013
  #34
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Being cheeky Efficiency is the name of the game. Fast turnaround but if the guys have been on the show before or for a while, it really helps doesn't it
Old 6th February 2013
  #35
For features I try and push for a week a reel for dialogue editing. Often times it ends up being about half that. But we're still talking a couple of weeks rather than a couple of days.

And to answer T_Young's earlier posting, the reason to ask for both edited boom and lav tracks doesn't have anything to do with not trusting the dialogue editor, it's because there are times when you don't know for sure which track is the best one to use until it's been noise-reduced, EQed, and treated, or how tracks will play with the rest of the elements in the film, and those are decisions to be made on a mix stage, not during DX edit.

Plus options are always handy when there is enough time/budget. You never know what a director or producer will suddenly ask or throw at you.
Old 6th February 2013
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leverson View Post
options are always handy when there is enough time/budget. You never know what a director or producer will suddenly ask or throw at you.
I think this is mostly what I've distilled this thread down to. It seems like most people that have chimed in have basically said, "If we can afford it, why not? But it doesn't usually happen."

I'm not surprised that the preference exists, but I think I had assumed, because of my relatively limited experience, that it was more uncommon. I've mixed some, but obviously at the budget level I've been working at (until this project), money and therefor time has always been scarce... But I've never found myself wishing I had an alternate edit. But maybe that will change if I ever end up mixing at higher levels. I usually only need to be burned once to learn my lesson
Old 6th February 2013
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nzl62 View Post
Most of the low budget tv I work on has a dialogue allowance of between 5-10 days for a commercial hour -( 46mins roughly). Averages out at about 7/8 days I guess.
What kind of low budget is that?
Old 7th February 2013
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mundox View Post
What kind of low budget is that?
Good question.
Tat sounds like high budget TV to me.

How long do they spend on the mix?
Old 7th February 2013
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
I guess we need to differentiate between the level of projects.
The majority don't have budgets of a week per reel and weeks of mixing.
we are talkingmuch much less time than that for editing. And an average if two days for a TV show and3-5 days to mix mow's and low budget features.
I had to restrain myself from laughing terribly, in a bad way. Sure hope those aren't generous time constraints.

Two days for pure dialogue editing, ok I might be able to deal with that. I'd spend about half that on a daily 40 minute soap opera here in Germany, though I also mix it in that same time as well. It can work out to 12 hours or so as well sometimes.

I figured weekly shows get 3-5 days for the dialogue editing and perhaps even mixing. Is it being cut down more than that now ?

The last fast project I did was three days for dialogue editing and mixing for a pilot, without a Cedar I'm sorry to say, but I still had time to swap out takes and massage difficult picture cuts to working soundtracks, almost without requiring any foley too(we don't do M&E's here for pilots off the bat).

I was under the impression that 20 days for dialogue editing of a theatrical feature, which includes ADR prep and editing, is a low budget production.
Old 7th February 2013
  #40
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Airon. I am seeing a lot of 2-3 day dialog edits for hour shows. 2 day mixes.
Old 7th February 2013
  #41
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Like most people here I prefer to get boom where possible. If the boom sounds good then realistically there is no reason to cut the lav. However when things are borderline or one angle of the boom is a disaster then it can be best to cut both (phase aligned) so that both can play. I've noticed that sometimes the lav is so crappy sounding that a little bit of boom added can clear the dial up sometimes. I usually only like to play one mic.
There is very limited time to mix these days so as hench says just pick the best mic unless things are borderline.
Old 7th February 2013
  #42
If both tracks are usable they should always be provided to the re-recording mixer, if time and budget allow. If the schedule is so short, or the budget so small as to not allow you to do a proper job you should let the producer know that your work will be compromised, and then do the best you can, pick the one that you think sounds and matches best. Many times more money will be spent on the stage looking for tracks that weren't provided and should have been than was saved by cutting your budget. You could mention that too.
Old 7th February 2013
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Fleischman View Post
If both tracks are usable they should always be provided to the re-recording mixer, if time and budget allow. If the schedule is so short, or the budget so small as to not allow you to do a proper job you should let the producer know that your work will be compromised, and then do the best you can, pick the one that you think sounds and matches best. Many times more money will be spent on the stage looking for tracks that weren't provided and should have been than was saved by cutting your budget. You could mention that too.
This completely makes sense to me, I had just always assumed that since when an omf explodes onto my edit window, NO track is usable, my job is to put together an edit that IS usable, that just meant putting together the best of everything recorded. I'm very happy about the amount of very experienced mixers that have chimed in to say that if, as you said, time and budget allow, they'd like the options. It may be something like cold comfort for the next few weeks while I'm editing haha, but it IS some comfort to know that this is fairly typical.

I think it just means a slight change in workflow for me. In the past, I've always gone through the reel, made my selections of which recordings will go into the edit, done a general tidying up pass (laying out tracks by matching perspectives/set ups, smoothing transitions, applying fades etc), then I usually do a fill pass, then on successive passes I go through with a fine tooth comb, removing set noise, replacing syllables, replacing lines with alternate takes if necessary etc.
Now it seems like I need to just make sure I give myself more time to make sure that ALL tracks will play back smoothly, which will adjust how I begin the edit (don't need to listen to everything carefully or make selections), and end the edit (I'll have less passes on each track to get really nitty gritty). I'm hoping that since I'll be spending less time on the one that I'll have a bit more time on the other. And I know the more experience I have, the faster I'll be... So if any of you guys wanna send some "experience" my way, I'm open to it...
Old 7th February 2013
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garret View Post
Like most people here I prefer to get boom where possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Fleischman View Post
If both tracks are usable they should always be provided to the re-recording mixer, if time and budget allow. If the schedule is so short, or the budget so small as to not allow you to do a proper job you should let the producer know that your work will be compromised, and then do the best you can, pick the one that you think sounds and matches best.
These sum up my thoughts. For film, I dislike the sound of Lav's. For TV, it is often the reality............
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Old 7th February 2013
  #45
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Regardless of how much time the editor gets. On a 3-5 day mix for a low budget feature or MOW and no pre-dub, I just don't have the time to be listening to multiple mic tracks.
That's simply the reality in my world.

And I definitely don't have time on TV shows.
Old 8th February 2013
  #46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
Regardless of how much time the editor gets. On a 3-5 day mix for a low budget feature or MOW and no pre-dub, I just don't have the time to be listening to multiple mic tracks.
That's simply the reality in my world.

And I definitely don't have time on TV shows.
In that case the producers are short changing themselves. Someone should let them know that. It's up to you to lobby for the time and budget you need to do the job well. If they decline, then you've at least tried to enlighten them, and you can proceed with a clear conscience.
Old 8th February 2013
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Fleischman View Post
In that case the producers are short changing themselves. Someone should let them know that. It's up to you to lobby for the time and budget you need to do the job well. If they decline, then you've at least tried to enlighten them, and you can proceed with a clear conscience.
I agree they are short changing themselves.
But I don't make the budgets or schedules.
I just mix.
Old 15th February 2013
  #48
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I'd say 85% for boom and the rest is for the lavs. But that would be great situation, rarely seen in russian tv/cinema i work at. But i'm trying to do my best on a set to record both equally good.
Old 15th February 2013
  #49
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I just finished a mix of a feature where it was possible to use 99% boom! What a pleasure - everything was recorded with Schoeps CMIT and it sounded just great. Used almost no EQ - just a little bit of HP/LP and one parametric to carve out some low mids where needed.
Did I mention earlier I don't like lavs?
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Old 15th February 2013
  #50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Branko View Post
I just finished a mix of a feature where it was possible to use 99% boom! What a pleasure - everything was recorded with Schoeps CMIT and it sounded just great. Used almost no EQ - just a little bit of HP/LP and one parametric to carve out some low mids where needed.
Did I mention earlier I don't like lavs?
Buy the production sound folks a beer or six! What a beautiful, rare thing.
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Old 16th February 2013
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Branko View Post
I just finished a mix of a feature where it was possible to use 99% boom! What a pleasure - everything was recorded with Schoeps CMIT and it sounded just great. Used almost no EQ - just a little bit of HP/LP and one parametric to carve out some low mids where needed.
Did I mention earlier I don't like lavs?
I am too mixing a film right now where we have been using mostly boom.
Best dialog I've had in a long time.
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