Logic Pro Dialog Editing Automation Workflow
Old 25th January 2013
  #1
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Logic Pro Dialog Editing Automation Workflow

Hey Guys,

I have this very particular issue about Dialog Editing in Logic.

I have worked with Pro Tools before and used the "Preview Mode" extensively. Logic does not seem to offer a similar feature (Please tell me otherwise ).
The comfortable fact about Pro Tools was the ability to copy ALL automateable parameters (such as eq, most importantly) and paste it to a then selected region. Now, this is something I did not find yet in Logic. I tried to work around the missing preview mode by selecting some automation with the "marquee tool" and copy it to the rest of the region or to another one with the same needs. But all I can move or copy is one parameter automation at once. Well, a fun time if working with a 6-band-eq on a full-length movie.

Is there any chance to handle whole automation settings in Logic?

Sincerely,
Tom
Old 25th January 2013
  #2
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Jamie Mac's Avatar
 

I have never heard of anyone doing a full length movie in Logic..

Editing in Logic is very cumbersome in my opinion and I couldn't imagine myself doing anything post related on it. Adding up all the time (and money) you lose with features it doesn't have, you would probably be better of buying a copy of pro tools and start over.
Old 25th January 2013
  #3
Agreed - and if you're just doing the DX edit, surely the mixers are going to expect Pro Tools sessions?
Old 25th January 2013
  #4
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TVo View Post
Hey Guys,

I have this very particular issue about Dialog Editing in Logic.

I have worked with Pro Tools before and used the "Preview Mode" extensively. Logic does not seem to offer a similar feature (Please tell me otherwise ).
The comfortable fact about Pro Tools was the ability to copy ALL automateable parameters (such as eq, most importantly) and paste it to a then selected region. Now, this is something I did not find yet in Logic. I tried to work around the missing preview mode by selecting some automation with the "marquee tool" and copy it to the rest of the region or to another one with the same needs. But all I can move or copy is one parameter automation at once. Well, a fun time if working with a 6-band-eq on a full-length movie.

Is there any chance to handle whole automation settings in Logic?

Sincerely,
Tom
Couldn't you just have a track below the track in question, and have the EQ on this track? You could then just move whatever region needed the EQ down to the new track. I do this with FX all the time in Logic ....maybe I'm not understanding what you need to do...?

TH
Old 25th January 2013
  #5
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitecat View Post
Agreed - and if you're just doing the DX edit, surely the mixers are going to expect Pro Tools sessions?
Agreed.
Old 25th January 2013
  #6
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Thread Starter
First of all, thank you for the quick answers.

@Jamie Mac
I read about a very few studios that actually use Logic for Post Production. But I really do not know how they do it and in what extent.

@oceantracks
I would like to experiment with eq-settings while loop playback and then assign it to a selected region or the area between the two locators, just like in Preview Mode of Pro Tools.

Well, maybe I should reconsider the option to buy PT after all?
Old 25th January 2013
  #7
Gear Head
 

Be advised that if you do any bounces that frame edges are loosey-goosey. The only frame edge that will be accurate will be the start of session. I wish Logic would consider going after some post productions customers. I tried it for a while when I was tired of doing ADC by hand in Pro Tools previous version. Good luck.
Old 26th January 2013
  #8
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If you bought the boxed version of Logic, that should come with a programme called 'Soundtrack Pro' which is designed to be used for post, you can copy and paste ("Stamp") settings between clips pretty easily. If you can't spring for a copy of PT/Cubendo, but need something that'll get the job done that could do.

I've used logic to do post... ONCE, for a corporate training video, 3 years ago, never again!
Old 26th January 2013
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVo View Post

the ability to copy ALL automateable parameters (such as eq, most importantly) and paste it to a then selected region.


Here are some of the automation key commands for the Arrange window. I marked the two which may be most interesting for in bold:

Quote:
Write Automation to End
Write Automation to Right Locator
Delete Visible Automation on Selected Track
Delete All Automation on Selected Track
Delete Orphaned Automation on Selected Track
Delete All Automation
Move Visible Region Data to Track Automation
Move Visible Track Automation to Region
Move All Region Data to Track Automation
Move All Track Automation to Region
Hide/Show Track Automation
You can also copy-paste all/multiple types of automation in the Automation Event List, which can be opened with a key command. Or user region based, as opposed to track based automation.

To select multiple automation nodes (NB - for one parameter at a time only), lasso them with Shift + the mouse tool. The Marquee tool won't do the trick in terms of what you want (but will work if you eg. want to drag or drag-copy automation on a track, or just grab an area and increase/decrease the levels of a given parameter on that track).
Old 26th January 2013
  #10
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Henchman's Avatar
Why ARE you using logic for post, anyway?
Old 26th January 2013
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVo View Post
Hey Guys,

I have this very particular issue about Dialog Editing in Logic.

Editing dx in logic is like using a screw driver to hammer a nail into a piece of wood. The screwdriver might get the nail into the wood as well but after the first nail you'll probably walk to the shed to get a hammer.

Old 26th January 2013
  #12
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
Why ARE you using logic for post, anyway?
Before spending the money I have seen it as an opportunity to get to know Logic even better. But until now, all I have managed to do are attempts that lead to nowhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisIsSka View Post
If you bought the boxed version of Logic, that should come with a programme called 'Soundtrack Pro' which is designed to be used for post, you can copy and paste ("Stamp") settings between clips pretty easily.
Thank you, maybe this will work.
Old 26th January 2013
  #13
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio View Post
Here are some of the automation key commands for the Arrange window. I marked the two which may be most interesting for in bold:

You can also copy-paste all/multiple types of automation in the Automation Event List, which can be opened with a key command. Or user region based, as opposed to track based automation.
The command "move automation to region" obviously writes my automated eq-parameters into the event list where i can edit them all together. Great. So I delete all the unwanted events and move the desired ones to the right place and... nothing changed. And whereto did the visual feedback go?
Old 26th January 2013
  #14
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gsilbers's Avatar
 

workflow is easy.

you quit logic, go to ebay and buy pro tools HD 9 or native 10 (which is fairly cheap if u going to keep doing post and getting $$$) and then work the normal tried and true post workflow.
Old 26th January 2013
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilbers View Post
workflow is easy.

you quit logic, go to ebay and buy pro tools HD 9 or native 10 (which is fairly cheap if u going to keep doing post and getting $$$) and then work the normal tried and true post workflow.
There's even a 30-day free trial of PT10 HD: Pro Tools 10 Trial - Get Your 30-Day Free Pro Tools Trial
Old 26th January 2013
  #16
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TVo View Post
So I delete all the unwanted events and move the desired ones to the right place and... nothing changed.
What does 'nothing changed' mean?
Here's another option for you (first, make sure 'Move Automation with Regions' is set to Always or Ask):

• Just move the source region to the desired destination, and say 'Yes' to "Copy Automation?".
• Now, delete the region (at the new destination), and say "No" to "Delete Automation?".
That's it. Now you have "handled whole automation settings", which is what you wanted - and can record or paste whatever you want into the new track or position (or both).

---

Or, as someone said: if this part is very important for you, and PT does exactly what you want it to do, just use PT instead. Most likely, neither of the 'workflows' are ideal - there could probably be a better solution, where you easily could define exactly which automation parameters you want to copy, from which area, and just copy them to any new track and position.

ETA - Option # 5: If you want to move the automation to another track, but same position, you can import the automation (only) into a new/blank track by using the Import function in the Browser.
Old 27th January 2013
  #17
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TVo View Post
But until now, all I have managed to do are attempts that lead to nowhere.


.

So you've wasted your time. And done it using a program you will never use in post.

And that makes sense how?
Old 27th January 2013
  #18
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio View Post
What does 'nothing changed' mean?
Nothing changed means that there is the same automation events happening as before the deletion, very confusing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio View Post
• Just move the source region to the desired destination, and say 'Yes' to "Copy Automation?".
• Now, delete the region (at the new destination), and say "No" to "Delete Automation?".
That's it. Now you have "handled whole automation settings", which is what you wanted - and can record or paste whatever you want into the new track or position (or both).
This is a nice workaround for copying the automation and would work for a few times but is a bit complex for doing it a couple hundred times.
Additionaly I am still not able to take the setting of one position at the timeline and paste it to the length of a region.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
So you've wasted your time. And done it using a program you will never use in post.

And that makes sense how?
I am not wasting my time here. I learned about some features in Logic which could be useable for some other things.
Maybe my attempt to use Logic in Post leads to a dead end, but at least I tried.
Old 27th January 2013
  #19
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Nothing changed means that there is the same automation events happening as before the deletion, very confusing.
I haven't seen that bug. If the automation nodes were still there after the deletion, they obviously weren't deleted. But I can't help you out here - haven't heard about that problem before.

A main trick to move automation is to move it from being track based to being region based, because then it follow regions when it is moved. And: that region may exist on the same track as the audio or music it automates, but doesn't need to have any audio or MIDI in it. This way, it only serves as a holder for the automation data, and can be freely copied/moved between tracks and locations.
Old 2nd February 2013
  #20
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Thread Starter
News!
Downloaded Test Version of PT10 and realized that the Automation capabilties are reduced, so i cannot use Preview Mode and all the related features. Is it true that I have to buy the Complete Production Toolkit for 2000bucks to use Preview Mode?
Old 3rd February 2013
  #21
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I really don't understand the mentality that Pro Tools is the only program for post.. You can do the exact same thing in Logic (with the bonus of offline rendering..). You can definitely copy automation information, google will help you.

The only downside of using Logic is file sharing with the Pro Tools community.
Old 3rd February 2013
  #22
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbell View Post
I really don't understand the mentality that Pro Tools is the only program for post.. You can do the exact same thing in Logic (with the bonus of offline rendering..). You can definitely copy automation information, google will help you.

The only downside of using Logic is file sharing with the Pro Tools community.
Done lots of audio post at a professional level in Logic have you?
Old 3rd February 2013
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
Done lots of audio post at a professional level in Logic have you?
No. I'm not an audio postproduction engineer. I've done similar tasks and feel that I know Logic and Pro Tools fairly well, and can see both handling full length films.
Old 3rd February 2013
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbell View Post
No. I'm not an audio postproduction engineer. I've done similar tasks and feel that I know Logic and Pro Tools fairly well, and can see both handling full length films.
And I started using Logic about 20 years ago.
And I would never use it in a full length film. Or any post production whatsoever.

Doing similar tasks, and working under tight deadlines, are two different things.
Old 3rd February 2013
  #25
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Well everyone has their own workflow. Not trying to argue.. just giving my perspective.
Old 3rd February 2013
  #26
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The biggest non-starter for Logic -Audio for post, is is lack of similar automation functions that pro-tools has. Most notably, preview, and the write-to options.
Old 3rd February 2013
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbell View Post
Well everyone has their own workflow. Not trying to argue.. just giving my perspective.
Problem is, you don't have enough post experience to have a valid point of reference.
Old 3rd February 2013
  #28
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Most notably, preview, and the write-to options.
True - Pro Tools has more write-to options than Logic, and Pro Tools also has a dedicated preview feature for automation.

The reason Logic doesn't have these features is probably only that not enough Logic users have asked for them.
Old 3rd February 2013
  #29
Gear nut
 

Your best bet is to go over to Logicprohelp forum and ask there. These guys have the knowledge of everything that is possible in Logic. I think you could do it, it's maybe not the easiest way of doing it, but if you know Logic inside out, you probably can.
Old 3rd February 2013
  #30
Gear nut
 

My other suggestion is to check out macprovideo 'Logic's Music for Video Toolbox' and Groove 3's Logic 9 Qwik Trix, which covers copying and converting automation. As alluded to earlier, the key is to fully understand the power of track v region automation and the essential and v useful ability to convert between one and the other. Regions can be containers of automation. You can create automation tracks, try different moves, and solo these as necessary (kind of a preview) and burn them to the track when wanted (like printing automation). So you can probably do what you want, but you have to put the time in, and really get to grips with handling the automation in Logic. It is actually very flexible once you have done this, but there is no way around doing some in depth study time on it.
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