Login / Register
 
Mixing for television, workflow
New Reply
Subscribe
Sotsirc
Thread Starter
#1
24th January 2013
Old 24th January 2013
  #1
Lives for gear
 
Sotsirc's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Bogustown, Europe
Posts: 1,687
My Recordings/Credits

Thread Starter
Sotsirc is offline
Mixing for television, workflow

It would be cool to hear some common workflows for people mixing for television in Pro Tools. Do you limit/compress most busses and tracks? Do you use audiosuite or automate EQ when there i need for different EQ on the same track? Do you find yourself riding the fader for every other word? Anyone use clip gain as a main tool for volume automation?

I understand that different situations dictate different methods but I'm struggling to master this craft and it would be nice to hear some common workflows for you pros out there.

Cheers
#2
24th January 2013
Old 24th January 2013
  #2
Gear Head
 
mmoeding's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 44

mmoeding is offline
Peak Limiter on the stems and the full mix, compress on individual dialog tracks, for eq changes on dialog use preview automation and auto write functions, clip gain to get everything relative so the compressors don't do too much work, riding faders on the dialog all the way through and if everything is set up good hopefully wont have to be moving the faders too drastically.
#3
24th January 2013
Old 24th January 2013
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Henchman's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: LA, USA
Posts: 8,575
My Recordings/Credits

Henchman is offline
I have a compressor on my 2 main dialog busses and a limiter of the 5.0 DX bus.
All plugins are automated. I rarely audiosuite anything except pitch.
I don't issues compressors on individual tracks.
#4
25th January 2013
Old 25th January 2013
  #4
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Oslo, Norway

Willeyh is offline
After mixing reality TV for over a couple years I can't stress the importance of a good template. I normally get 8 hours to do a 45 minute episode, with around 3 hours of VO recording.
So My workflow usually is set to a basic template with LET, VO, Music, SFX tracks and all the routing, basic eq all set. Import the omf/aaf and picture then arrange the audio to the pre-existing tracks.
Jump around in the timeline and dial in an EQ that Pretty much work for the whole show and do finer adjustments when needed. VO and LET (Location sound/Dialogue) have their own master EQ and compressor/limiter, sometimes the air enhancer on the VO bus, I rarely compress music, since most of it is from libraries and already Pretty compressed but all buses routed to the Master bus with an EQ and Waves L2 from which I ride volume automation on each Dialogue track to around -3 attenuation on. Each subgroup also gets routed to individual limit busses from which I can easily record individual stems with The Main mix!

After around 3/4 Episodes The template is Pretty much so complete that (almost) all I have to do is write volume automation and deniose/spectral repair!

This workflow doesnt work that well for drama/documentaries but its still good to have some decent time saving templates that Are easy to work with and you know inside out!

Cheers!
(My first post on gearslutz, but I thought I'd give My 2 cents) and sorry if I missed some auto corrects, gotta love The iPhone!
#5
25th January 2013
Old 25th January 2013
  #5
Gear Head
 
postfieldmusic's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: sweden
Posts: 45

postfieldmusic is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willeyh View Post
After mixing reality TV for over a couple years I can't stress the importance of a good template. I normally get 8 hours to do a 45 minute episode, with around 3 hours of VO recording.
Is the VO recording included in the 8 hours? If so, that was a tough one. I do a 45 min reality show in around 10 hours, but then I 99% of the time don´t have to record VO.

Mixing shows that has a boom mic involved is usually easier in my opinion. The boom track glues evereything together much better, an a lav has almost always some offending freq´s that needs to be adjusted.

Totally agree on the importance of a template. For superfast TV work I usually just roll of some bass on the individual tracks, and automate each scene roughly with the eq on the dialogue bus. Then a compressor set to 3:1 ratio, pretty slow.I mix with a Massey L2007 on the dia bus, but listening an watching it carefully. Couldn´t live without my faders.



arvid in stockholm
__________________
Sound recordist and mixer for film and tv.
PT 10.3.3 CPTK
OS X 10.8.2
Macpro Harpertown 2 x 3.2 ghz
Avid artist mix
Genelec 5.1 monitoring, treated room.
#6
25th January 2013
Old 25th January 2013
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: London
Posts: 707

FullFrequency is offline
Yes to templates - I don't think you can realistically work without them for TV work. It's too tight turnaround and building from scratch is just time wasting.

I have a number of different templates for different specs depending on what channel and territory. For instance I have made a new one recently for UK broadcasters working to R.128, where I have only limiting at -1 on all stems and the master channel. I have another template that has harder limiting and different structure for channels like Discovery that have a much lower true peak because they are stilll Leq-a or LKFS (or just -10 or -12 peak for that matter) You could just save plugin pre-sets to do the same, i just choose to do it this way.

In terms of compression etc i work with the same structure as Henchman, however there's no right or wrong, just what you (and your clients) find good.

So you see, there's a fair bit to consider, however once it's all done and you have a workflow that you're happy with......... it's still hectic as you have one day to mix a show :p
__________________
FF

dubbing mixer / sound designer and all things post sound related!
My IMDB
My Full Credits
My 2011 Showreel
#7
25th January 2013
Old 25th January 2013
  #7
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Oslo, Norway

Willeyh is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by postfieldmusic View Post
Is the VO recording included in the 8 hours? If so, that was a tough one. I do a 45 min reality show in around 10 hours, but then I 99% of the time don´t have to record VO.
I was a bit unclear on that. The VO is not included in the 8 hours. That would be insane, although it could be done in some cases!

I usually have the L2007 on VO but for my main mix I find it easier to work with the attenuation meter on the L2. Just personal preference. But that Massey plug-in is a beast!

One more thing that speeds up my workflow even more is the Microsoft Intelli Mouse, or the driver rather. I´ve set it up so that the thumb and right mouse button both do "option +" so I can quickly switch to volume automation view in Pro Tools! This is a godsend if you get used to it.

Also when I print the final mix I have Dialogue and Music bus to fader 1 and 2 on my Artist Mix so I can do real time last-minute fix while printing!

- W
#8
25th January 2013
Old 25th January 2013
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,154

mattiasnyc is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
I have a compressor on my 2 main dialog busses and a limiter of the 5.0 DX bus.
All plugins are automated. I rarely audiosuite anything except pitch.
I don't issues compressors on individual tracks.
Same here except I do use audiosuite on some content.
Sotsirc
Thread Starter
#9
25th January 2013
Old 25th January 2013
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Sotsirc's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Bogustown, Europe
Posts: 1,687
My Recordings/Credits

Thread Starter
Sotsirc is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willeyh View Post
I was a bit unclear on that. The VO is not included in the 8 hours. That would be insane, although it could be done in some cases!

I usually have the L2007 on VO but for my main mix I find it easier to work with the attenuation meter on the L2. Just personal preference. But that Massey plug-in is a beast!

One more thing that speeds up my workflow even more is the Microsoft Intelli Mouse, or the driver rather. I´ve set it up so that the thumb and right mouse button both do "option +" so I can quickly switch to volume automation view in Pro Tools! This is a godsend if you get used to it.

Also when I print the final mix I have Dialogue and Music bus to fader 1 and 2 on my Artist Mix so I can do real time last-minute fix while printing!

- W
Do you find you worry less about too much GR distorting the sound with the L2007? I've only used it a couple of times but find it a lot cleaner than the L2.
#10
25th January 2013
Old 25th January 2013
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: London
Posts: 707

FullFrequency is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sotsirc View Post
Do you find you worry less about too much GR distorting the sound with the L2007? I've only used it a couple of times but find it a lot cleaner than the L2.
All about McDSP ML4000 if you want clean!
#11
25th January 2013
Old 25th January 2013
  #11
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Oslo, Norway

Willeyh is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sotsirc View Post
Do you find you worry less about too much GR distorting the sound with the L2007? I've only used it a couple of times but find it a lot cleaner than the L2.
I mostly crush the hell out of the L2007 and be a bit more gentle with the L2.
But it´s more a workflow preference since the L2 interface is bigger and easier to read real-time with the attenuation meter.

Since most of the Reality TV shows I mix are, well, not really dynamic, I tend to not overdo it with the L2 and gentle GR around 0 to -3.

On shows that we call "Striper" (shows that run on the exact time Monday-Friday) all reality my L2 is set to -20 Threshold!!
With the dialogue around 0 and -3 and VO in around -6 GR.

Which doesn´t exactly sound pretty, but it works on TV.

So whenever I get a documentary or something that really inspires or calls for a more dynamic mix I go !
#12
25th January 2013
Old 25th January 2013
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: London, UK
Posts: 811

tom_lowe is offline
Is no one using NuGen ISL for TruePeak limiting yet? Very transparent sound, even if pushed hard.
#13
25th January 2013
Old 25th January 2013
  #13
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Oslo, Norway

Willeyh is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom_lowe View Post
Is no one using NuGen ISL for TruePeak limiting yet? Very transparent sound, even if pushed hard.
Haven´t used that one, but I´ve tried the UAD Precision Limiter Plug-In on some commercials and that thing is a beast...
#14
25th January 2013
Old 25th January 2013
  #14
Gear maniac
 
conleec's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Location: Los Angeles

conleec is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by FullFrequency View Post
All about McDSP ML4000 if you want clean!
+1. My all-around favorite plugin. Not to hijack the OP's original question, but the ML4000 is so flexible I use it for everything from sweetening, to noise reducing, to upward expansion to make my FX pop, to master limiting. It ends up on almost every channel.
__________________
------------------
Chris Conlee
Editor / Director
Demo Reel
Sotsirc
Thread Starter
#15
28th January 2013
Old 28th January 2013
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Sotsirc's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Bogustown, Europe
Posts: 1,687
My Recordings/Credits

Thread Starter
Sotsirc is offline
Is there an easy way in PT to use a MIDI controller to write volume automation?
#16
29th January 2013
Old 29th January 2013
  #16
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Oslo, Norway

Willeyh is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sotsirc View Post
Is there an easy way in PT to use a MIDI controller to write volume automation?
Check out The Avid Artist Mix or Controller. (all The previous fader bugs from The first release Are gone)

I use either that or The Command 8. But The 8 is not going to be supported in The next Pro Tools release.
#17
29th January 2013
Old 29th January 2013
  #17
Gear Head
 
postfieldmusic's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: sweden
Posts: 45

postfieldmusic is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sotsirc View Post
Is there an easy way in PT to use a MIDI controller to write volume automation?
If you´re on a really tight budget, a Presonus Fader Port is better than no faders at all. I use one at home. Works good, especially considering it´s price. Working with only one fader slows down the work flow a bit though, compared to the Artist mix.

arvid in stockholm
#18
29th January 2013
Old 29th January 2013
  #18
Gear addict
 
RecRoom's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: NYC

RecRoom is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
I have a compressor on my 2 main dialog busses and a limiter of the 5.0 DX bus.
All plugins are automated. I rarely audiosuite anything except pitch.
I don't issues compressors on individual tracks.
Mark, curious as to why you have 2 dialog busses as opposed to just sending all your dialog through one main buss?
__________________
Jeff Hinton
http://jeffhinton.tv/
#19
29th January 2013
Old 29th January 2013
  #19
Lives for gear
 
Henchman's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: LA, USA
Posts: 8,575
My Recordings/Credits

Henchman is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by RecRoom View Post
Mark, curious as to why you have 2 dialog busses as opposed to just sending all your dialog through one main buss?
I mean two dialog processing chains, that feed the dialog buss.
#20
29th January 2013
Old 29th January 2013
  #20
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: London
Posts: 707

FullFrequency is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
I mean two dialog processing chains, that feed the dialog buss.
Is that dynamics chain, and then an effect chain (like Futz)?
#21
29th January 2013
Old 29th January 2013
  #21
Lives for gear
 
Henchman's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: LA, USA
Posts: 8,575
My Recordings/Credits

Henchman is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by FullFrequency View Post
Is that dynamics chain, and then an effect chain (like Futz)?
No, identical chains.
#22
29th January 2013
Old 29th January 2013
  #22
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, Canada
Posts: 222

paranerd is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
No, identical chains.
You're automating your chains? I'm trying to picture it.

I have a number of DX tracks, let's say 8, with automated EQ on each track. All tracks are going to a DX bus with a compressor and limiter. All tracks also have sends to an IR verb bus and that bus it going to my DX bus. I Audiosuite all noise reduction and keep a muted copy of the original clips on other tracks.
__________________
The Postman Post-Production Studio
Moncton, NB, Canada

IMDb
#23
29th January 2013
Old 29th January 2013
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Henchman's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: LA, USA
Posts: 8,575
My Recordings/Credits

Henchman is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by paranerd View Post
You're automating your chains? I'm trying to picture it.

I have a number of DX tracks, let's say 8, with automated EQ on each track. All tracks are going to a DX bus with a compressor and limiter. All tracks also have sends to an IR verb bus and that bus it going to my DX bus. I Audiosuite all noise reduction and keep a muted copy of the original clips on other tracks.

I have no direct outputs from my dialog tracks.
All of my dialog tracks have Eq, notch filters and sends for reverbs, as well as two sends for each of the dialog chains, and a send to the min dialog buss. Both chains have cedar, compressor, VOG, de-esser and peak limiter, as well as an additional EQ.
These changing also have aux sends for reverb as well. So I can send clean eq'd mixed dialog to verbs when necessary.

So, I now have an automated bussing system to send any DX track to either DX buss A or B as well as directly to the main DX buss.

And dialog is pannable through the 5.0 from the processing chains.
Sotsirc
Thread Starter
#24
29th January 2013
Old 29th January 2013
  #24
Lives for gear
 
Sotsirc's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Bogustown, Europe
Posts: 1,687
My Recordings/Credits

Thread Starter
Sotsirc is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
I have no direct outputs from my dialog tracks.
All of my dialog tracks have Eq, notch filters and sends for reverbs, as well as two sends for each of the dialog chains, and a send to the min dialog buss. Both chains have cedar, compressor, VOG, de-esser and peak limiter, as well as an additional EQ.
These changing also have aux sends for reverb as well. So I can send clean eq'd mixed dialog to verbs when necessary.

So, I now have an automated bussing system to send any DX track to either DX buss A or B as well as directly to the main DX buss.

And dialog is pannable through the 5.0 from the processing chains.
What's a common situation for you to use reverb om dialog tracks? Would you use it as a fix tool in a reality type program or is it mostly for drama/film type stuff?
#25
29th January 2013
Old 29th January 2013
  #25
Gear nut
 
t_young's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 91

t_young is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
Both chains have cedar, compressor, VOG, de-esser and peak limiter, as well as an additional EQ.
VOG, as in Voice of God?? If so, is that always in your mix to some degree, or do you keep it bypassed until the need arises? Also, is it specific to your chain for broadcast stuff, or is it common in chains for feature work too?
#26
29th January 2013
Old 29th January 2013
  #26
Lives for gear
 
Henchman's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: LA, USA
Posts: 8,575
My Recordings/Credits

Henchman is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by t_young View Post
VOG, as in Voice of God?? If so, is that always in your mix to some degree, or do you keep it bypassed until the need arises? Also, is it specific to your chain for broadcast stuff, or is it common in chains for feature work too?
It's in my chain if I need it for particularly thin dialog, wether its a feature, dialog, documentary. Anything.
I have had shows where It's never turned off.
#27
29th January 2013
Old 29th January 2013
  #27
Lives for gear
 
Henchman's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: LA, USA
Posts: 8,575
My Recordings/Credits

Henchman is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sotsirc View Post
What's a common situation for you to use reverb om dialog tracks? Would you use it as a fix tool in a reality type program or is it mostly for drama/film type stuff?
Matching ADR. Putting someone In big space if needed. Putting someone behind a door, or down the hallway. Smoothing out abrupt edits by adding mono verb to the end of a line. Someone n a podium.

Numerous occasions that can occur. And again, reality, feature, drama.mI approach them all the same.
#28
29th January 2013
Old 29th January 2013
  #28
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, Canada
Posts: 222

paranerd is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
I have no direct outputs from my dialog tracks.
All of my dialog tracks have Eq, notch filters and sends for reverbs, as well as two sends for each of the dialog chains, and a send to the min dialog buss. Both chains have cedar, compressor, VOG, de-esser and peak limiter, as well as an additional EQ.
These changing also have aux sends for reverb as well. So I can send clean eq'd mixed dialog to verbs when necessary.

So, I now have an automated bussing system to send any DX track to either DX buss A or B as well as directly to the main DX buss.

And dialog is pannable through the 5.0 from the processing chains.
Aaahhh, ok, you're automating your sends to the chains! I can see the appeal, but I'm a little squeezed on DSP power to try that route I think. I've stripped my template down to the basics and add as I go if I feel it's necessary.

Quote:
What's a common situation for you to use reverb om dialog tracks? Would you use it as a fix tool in a reality type program or is it mostly for drama/film type stuff?
I use it for both. To try to fix edits in verby dialogue and for effect.
#29
29th January 2013
Old 29th January 2013
  #29
Gear nut
 
t_young's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 91

t_young is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
It's in my chain if I need it for particularly thin dialog, wether its a feature, dialog, documentary. Anything.
I have had shows where It's never turned off.
I'm not sure why that never occurred to me before, but I really like the idea. It also seems like it'd be helpful if there was dx that perhaps needed some particularly aggressive noise reduction. Not that I would use it as an excuse to push reduction harder than I would to begin with, but I could see how it may give a little life back to it. Cheers!
#30
30th January 2013
Old 30th January 2013
  #30
Lives for gear
 
Henchman's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: LA, USA
Posts: 8,575
My Recordings/Credits

Henchman is offline
ABC Family's "The Lying Game" is an example of a show that I pretty much use the VOG on all the time. Started usingn it on the current season. That's when I switched to using a bunch of UAD plugins. As well as replacing the Q 10 with Equick.
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Topic:
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
BrenJWC / So much gear, so little time!
4
TonyBelmont / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
5
Bartosz Idzi / Post Production forum!
2
andrewh / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
11
Curve Dominant / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
25

Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.