Catchin' Sync -new sync-checking app
tom_lowe
Thread Starter
#1
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #1
Lives for gear
 

Thread Starter
Catchin' Sync -new sync-checking app

#2
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #2
Gear addict
 

Hey Tom,

wow and it´s free!

will check it tomorrow....
Thank you!
#3
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #3
Gear addict
 

ahhh o.k it is not...


bought it anyway! So nobody needs to lend me his syncheck anymore :-)
#4
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #4
Gear nut
 

It seems like a good concept but does this tools take iPhone's audio video recording offset into consideration?

I am not ready to get rid of my marvelous Syncheck, but I will give it a try and compare the results when I have a bit of spare time.

Thanks Tom.
#5
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Nice find! Gonna test this out in January.
#6
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #6
Lives for gear
 

I don't quite understand how I'd use this to tune sync in my studio. I use syncheck to check sync between audio and video playback devices/apps that I have here. In the video this app seemed to be adjusting sync of a picture and sound file that was stored in the phone. How does that translate to a real studio?

philp
#7
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #7
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jahtao's Avatar
Huh? Whattt? Worst demo video ever. Think we'll stick with our SynCheck box for now...
#8
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #8
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danijel's Avatar
What's the framerate of iPhone camera?
#9
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #9
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danijel's Avatar
iPhone 4 specs say "up to 30fps". So, I'm guessing this app is useful to get your sync down to +/-1 frame, while SynCheck is more precise I believe....?
#10
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #10
Gear addict
 

Yeah, not getting rid of my SynCheck yet
#11
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #11
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by danijel View Post
iPhone 4 specs say "up to 30fps". So, I'm guessing this app is useful to get your sync down to +/-1 frame, while SynCheck is more precise I believe....?
as long as a camera with a framerate is used to measure this app will never be accurate.
#12
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by danijel View Post
iPhone 4 specs say "up to 30fps". So, I'm guessing this app is useful to get your sync down to +/-1 frame, while SynCheck is more precise I believe....?
Yep. Error of up to a frame either way. It still might be handy for a non pro but no useful for post production.
#13
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #13
By the way, it's not free, it's $13.99 (via in app purchase) which isn't bad if it actually works. Not sure how accurate it is. I imagine like others have said, you probably can't get it any more accurate than 1 frame.
#14
17th December 2012
Old 17th December 2012
  #14
Gear addict
 
rcutz's Avatar
I bougth it.

I give it a very fast tried...

You first need to create a video ref, like a pop screen + bip sound.

Then you play it and record it through the app (pro version)

Then you play de video and visually check if the sound is in synck with the image. If not you move the sound until it gets align with the image, in that process the app measures the offset, down to quarter frames...

I do believe, if they are serious people that they take in to considerations all hardware limitations of the iphone, "fixing" it in the code.

Using it on a 3Gs with ios6.

I did not check if the app is good, just how it works...best.
#15
17th December 2012
Old 17th December 2012
  #15
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JSt0rm's Avatar
 

Thanks for reporting...
#16
17th December 2012
Old 17th December 2012
  #16
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcutz View Post
I bougth it.

I give it a very fast tried...

You first need to create a video ref, like a pop screen + bip sound.

Then you play it and record it through the app (pro version)

Then you play de video and visually check if the sound is in synck with the image. If not you move the sound until it gets align with the image, in that process the app measures the offset, down to quarter frames...

I do believe, if they are serious people that they take in to considerations all hardware limitations of the iphone, "fixing" it in the code.

Using it on a 3Gs with ios6.

I did not check if the app is good, just how it works...best.
Thanks: so you make a beep+flash frame video, play it back on your system and record it into the phone via the phone's camera and mic. Then you play the recording back on the phone and use the app to tell you how far off you are. Then....I guess...you make the adjustment on your system and try again.....? They should explain this better...

philp
#17
17th December 2012
Old 17th December 2012
  #17
Gear addict
 

O.K just tested it.... Not too convinced yet..
It would be nice to know if and how they compensated the I phone camera....

Just asked a friend to lend me his synccheck agein :-)
Maybe I can test it ageinst a syncheck soon...
tom_lowe
Thread Starter
#18
17th December 2012
Old 17th December 2012
  #18
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
Thanks: so you make a beep+flash frame video, play it back on your system and record it into the phone via the phone's camera and mic. Then you play the recording back on the phone and use the app to tell you how far off you are. Then....I guess...you make the adjustment on your system and try again.....? They should explain this better...

philp
Their website is pretty clear that the free version is just a demo video and you have to pay in order to record your own videos to check sync. Just wish they'd make an Android version now!
#19
17th December 2012
Old 17th December 2012
  #19
Gear addict
 
rcutz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
Thanks: so you make a beep+flash frame video, play it back on your system and record it into the phone via the phone's camera and mic. Then you play the recording back on the phone and use the app to tell you how far off you are. Then....I guess...you make the adjustment on your system and try again.....? They should explain this better...

philp
exact!
#20
17th December 2012
Old 17th December 2012
  #20
Gear nut
 
rfnoise's Avatar
 

Using the phone/pod's camera, this approach will never be as accurate as a Syncheck. The camera is always "quantizing" the visual input. The accuracy is limited by the frame rate of the camera and cannot be "fixed in the code". Yes you can measure a video stream and derive a measurement. But if you make several recordings of the exact same flash/pip source, you will have several slightly different video stream "interpretations". Once you factor in the variability of LCD, QuickTime, interlaced vs. progressive displays, etc. of the source you want to measure, it doesn't seem realistic to have to take dozens of iPhone recordings in order to make a reasonably good guess about what the sync offset actually is. What part of the variability is due to the camera and what part is due to the source?

It is the exact reason we did not release an iPhone app years ago.
#21
17th December 2012
Old 17th December 2012
  #21
Gear addict
 
rcutz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rfnoise View Post
Using the phone/pod's camera, this approach will never be as accurate as a Syncheck. The camera is always "quantizing" the visual input. The accuracy is limited by the frame rate of the camera and cannot be "fixed in the code". Yes you can measure a video stream and derive a measurement. But if you make several recordings of the exact same flash/pip source, you will have several slightly different video stream "interpretations". Once you factor in the variability of LCD, QuickTime, interlaced vs. progressive displays, etc. of the source you want to measure, it doesn't seem realistic to have to take dozens of iPhone recordings in order to make a reasonably good guess about what the sync offset actually is. What part of the variability is due to the camera and what part is due to the source?

It is the exact reason we did not release an iPhone app years ago.
thanks for the information, rfnoise.
I will give it a more complete shot, I hope this week...
then I report it here...
#22
18th December 2012
Old 18th December 2012
  #22
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Mundox's Avatar
 

Hi guys. I thought I'd try and clear some things up.
First, Tom thanks for the thread.

This is an app designed to help people like us with their sync concerns on the cheap. I used this method several times in the past utilizing digital cameras and using PT as a platform to review findings. I thought bringing the method to the phone would be a practical alternative.

Iphone sync offset: We have mechanically tested video/audio sync integrity of iPhones and iPad recordings but haven't observed any offset. Videos recorded with iPhones are in sync.

Accuracy: Yes, the 30 frame limitation prevents the app to be precise. But we are confident that you can easily get within the half frame and as close as within a quarter frame if not better. And it only takes one measurement, adjustment, and another measurement and adjustment.
We have compared the findings with 50fps footage that was shot concurrently and results were almost identical.

So, not a 100% scientific approach but it can get you where you should be quickly and cheaply.

p.s I will be posting some countdown clips in various formats on the site soon.

Last edited by Mundox; 3rd April 2013 at 10:45 AM.. Reason: reference to the old thread title removed
Quote
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tom_lowe
Thread Starter
#23
18th December 2012
Old 18th December 2012
  #23
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mundox View Post
Hi guys. I thought I'd try and clear some things up.
First, Tom thanks for the thread but the title could be a little softer?

This is an app designed to help people like us with their sync concerns on the cheap. I used this method several times in the past utilizing digital cameras and using PT as a platform to review findings. I thought bringing the method to the phone would be a practical alternative.

Iphone sync offset: We have mechanically tested video/audio sync integrity of iPhones and iPad recordings but haven't observed any offset. Videos recorded with iPhones are in sync.

Accuracy: Yes, the 30 frame limitation prevents the app to be precise. But we are confident that you can easily get within the half frame and as close as within a quarter frame if not better. And it only takes one measurement, adjustment, and another measurement and adjustment.
We have compared the findings with 50fps footage that was shot concurrently and results were almost identical.

So, not a 100% scientific approach but it can get you where you should be quickly and cheaply.

p.s I will be posting some countdown clips in various formats on the site soon.
Thanks for the clarification.

OK, so my title was a bit harsh, and yes, the Syncheck obviously is more accurate, but given the cost difference this opens up checking sync to a lot more people. Despite the limitations of phone cameras, it's surely a big step forward compared to not checking sync or trying to do it manually by eye.

All in all, this app can only be a good thing. Those who don't like it probably already have Synchecks or can get one.
#24
18th December 2012
Old 18th December 2012
  #24
Gear addict
 
rcutz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mundox View Post
Hi guys. I thought I'd try and clear some things up.
First, Tom thanks for the thread but the title could be a little softer?

This is an app designed to help people like us with their sync concerns on the cheap. I used this method several times in the past utilizing digital cameras and using PT as a platform to review findings. I thought bringing the method to the phone would be a practical alternative.

Iphone sync offset: We have mechanically tested video/audio sync integrity of iPhones and iPad recordings but haven't observed any offset. Videos recorded with iPhones are in sync.

Accuracy: Yes, the 30 frame limitation prevents the app to be precise. But we are confident that you can easily get within the half frame and as close as within a quarter frame if not better. And it only takes one measurement, adjustment, and another measurement and adjustment.
We have compared the findings with 50fps footage that was shot concurrently and results were almost identical.

So, not a 100% scientific approach but it can get you where you should be quickly and cheaply.

p.s I will be posting some countdown clips in various formats on the site soon.
Hi Thanks!

It would be very nice if you prepare this series of test videos as part of the product. I think it is a important piece of the procedure.

Beyond the option of various frame rates, also some options of codec, for those whow could use from blackmagic video cards to the old canopus...

Best
R.
#25
18th December 2012
Old 18th December 2012
  #25
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom_lowe View Post
Their website is pretty clear that the free version is just a demo video and you have to pay in order to record your own videos to check sync. Just wish they'd make an Android version now!
My question was whether or not you have to record in your "flash" video from system, check the sync in the app, make changes and then repeat process. The website did not open for me at all--stuck on a the title page, and the App Store is very unclear on how the app works. Thanks. If what I said is true then it is too slow for me--I'll stay w/ SynCheck.

philp
#26
19th December 2012
Old 19th December 2012
  #26
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Mundox's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcutz View Post
Hi Thanks!

It would be very nice if you prepare this series of test videos as part of the product. I think it is a important piece of the procedure.

Beyond the option of various frame rates, also some options of codec, for those whow could use from blackmagic video cards to the old canopus...

Best
R.
Videos are up on the site now:
Catchin SYNC test videos


Quote:
Originally Posted by philper
The website did not open for me at all--stuck on a the title page,
That's my fault. I made a typo posting the site information to the app store.
#27
19th December 2012
Old 19th December 2012
  #27
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danijel's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mundox View Post
Videos are up on the site now:
Catchin SYNC test videos
I'd love to have those videos even though I don't use an iPhone. Is it OK to grab them?

BTW, from the SloProApp website:
Q.Why doesn't SloPro capture 60FPS anymore?
A.Apple changed the fundamental frameworks of video capture in iOS 6. After months of testing, we haven't been able to achieve 60FPS again. We hope to have this capability working again soon.


I'd say the hardware is capable of recording @60fps, it's just a matter of time before someone cracks the capability.
#28
19th December 2012
Old 19th December 2012
  #28
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Mundox's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by danijel View Post
I'd love to have those videos even though I don't use an iPhone. Is it OK to grab them?
.
Sure, they are free to use for anyone.
#29
19th December 2012
Old 19th December 2012
  #29
Gear Head
 

Funny how everyone is quick to dismiss this app and the iPhone camera as not very accurate when people are readily also dismissing the mojo (which is the most accurate video solution for Pro Tools - albeit SD) and playing rubbery quick times in Pro Tools.. Mojo for me and 100% accuracy thank you

Cheers
#30
20th December 2012
Old 20th December 2012
  #30
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikerophonics View Post
Funny how everyone is quick to dismiss this app and the iPhone camera as not very accurate when people are readily also dismissing the mojo (which is the most accurate video solution for Pro Tools - albeit SD) and playing rubbery quick times in Pro Tools.. Mojo for me and 100% accuracy thank you

Cheers
No rubber here.

The website for this app is working now--thanks; it will be a good thing to have on hand for location work or sync questions in other studios.

philp
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