Dealing with Unrealistic Audio Post Deadlines

[dualflip]

Just tell them that theres a direct relationship between time, budget and the quality of the product..

[1320 P.]

I understand what you are saying and I do say that. It just seems that blame always gets deferred.

I am just not sure how to handle it when QC in Germany is freaking out and the film company is freaking out, and I am like
"I agree with Germany," and to the film company I am like "I told you so"

Problem is, at that point no one cares except the buyer and the seller.

[dualflip]

Ive seen it a million times, the director, or someone else ****s up with the timelines, they realize they are not having enough time, so they play the "guilt" card with you, they try to blame their problems on you and tell you that its your responsibility to finish in very little time.

So they basically are giving you their problem and then they walk away, after all if you dont finish in the very little time they gave you, its your fault, not theirs for wasting months and months prior to that.

So its your choice if you decide to assume their blame, but if you do you have to bite the bullet and finish on time. Again, I would tell them that quality is directly proportional to time, so they are getting whatever they paid for in the time limit they assigned you.

Honestly if I were you, I would not agree to do the job, let them solve their own **** ups without having to blame it on you, seriously you are instantly going to be part of a problem which wasnt your fault in the first place, unless of course they are paying you REALLY well.

[Henchman]

Just make sure that the minute the schedules gets messed up, you start emailing them. Create a paper trail. And you can never be blamed.

[1320 P.]

Originally Posted by Henchman

Just make sure that the minute the schedules gets messed up, you start emailing them. Create a paper trail. And you can never be blamed.

I am lucky that I learned this early on before I ever became responsible for finals when I was doing advertising dialogue and effects. I am grateful that I had the opportunity to be an assistant to a great engineer.

It saved my ass on the last picture!!!

As a side note, Mark, I have followed your posts for a long time and thanks for sharing your knowledge.

[1320 P.]

My problem is that I want to do deliver the best product I can that meets technical requirements and so many times I get robbed of that ability.

[jrakarl]

I work in a completely different industry where this is also a problem. Seems like human nature problem, rather than film specific.

In my experience having an open and clear dialog from the outset, with these things also documented (perhaps in a contract) can set the tone for later proceedings. Lack of consideration (of both schedule and communication) for downstream impacts, like post production can be curtailed by having expectations set professionally from the beginning.

Sounds like you have an excellent job none-the-less :thumbup:

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by 1320 P.

My problem is that I want to do deliver the best product I can that meets technical requirements and so many times I get robbed of that ability.

Well, that's life in post. Just don't fall into the trap of caring more than the client is willing to pay for.

[JSt0rm]

Take the total days you have to work on the project and divide it by the total running time. This is what you need to do in a day.

[Frank S.]

Originally Posted by Henchman

Well, that's life in post. Just don't fall into the trap of caring more than the client is willing to pay for.

I fall into that trap way too much. Unrealistic deadlines are daily life for me, and being a perfectionist it really hurts. The sad part is that you can really hear the difference between a show that had the proper amount of time and one that didn't.

[RecRoom]

Originally Posted by Frank S.

The sad part is that you can really hear the difference between a show that had the proper amount of time and one that didn't.

Totally. I have a client that wanted me to mix a 22 min show in 1/2 a day because that's how long it took their old mixer to do it. It absolutely sounded like it was mixed in a half a day. I told them thanks but no thanks.

[Frank S.]

Been there...and done it. Oh well. Gots to pay da bills...just make sure your name isnt in the credits on those jobs. Hahaha.

[Ghosted]

Reminds me of this story...

"James Horner scores Aliens in 3 weeks" (And was not happy about it)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzati0Am5GE

[georgia]

Originally Posted by 1320 P.

How do you guys deal with Directors/Companies/Producers ect that put unrealistic deadlines on you.

It seems as though many "Picture" people have forgotten about audio. They seem to think that if Britney can sound like she can sing, and Lord of the Rings can include making of sound in a short 20 minute segment that audio post is EASY.

So as picture cuts get pushed further, and the final deadline approaches, knowing that the final deadline is with you, the re recording mixer, how do you deal with it? Do you put a deadline on the picture edit? Do you place liability with the company/director/producer?

Obviously I am aware that there is no such thing as a locked cut anymore, but it seems to be getting OUT OF HAND over the last while.

Thanks

... and your point?


cheers
geo

[ggegan]

What I do is not submit a bid with an unrealistic budget that doesn't specify extra charges for late turnovers or picture changes.

[totalgear]

In the TV world very few care about audio, until it screws up...

If you don't take the job someone else will.

[ggegan]

Originally Posted by totalgear

If you don't take the job someone else will.

So I'm supposed to feel sorry for them?

Not every project is worth doing. Life's too short.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by Frank S.

I fall into that trap way too much. Unrealistic deadlines are daily life for me, and being a perfectionist it really hurts. The sad part is that you can really hear the difference between a show that had the proper amount of time and one that didn't.

And now they know that they can under budget, and get more time for free.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by totalgear

In the TV world very few care about audio, until it screws up...

.

Not true.
I guess it depends on the type of TV work you do.

[totalgear]

Agreed if you consider the Grammy then I would assume they care a great deal like most very high profile broadcast events but the daily "consumable" program is not dealt with the same way.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by totalgear

Agreed if you consider the Grammy then I would assume they care a great deal like most very high profile broadcast events but the daily "consumable" program is not dealt with the same way.

Having mixed a ton of different stuff, including a pile of reality TV, I can tell you, you are wrong.

[totalgear]

Originally Posted by Henchman

Having mixed a ton of different stuff, including a pile of reality TV, I can tell you, you are wrong.

I can also tell you you are wrong for I have also mixed a lot of stuff. Content producers only care about audio when it fails, it only has the leftover budgets.

I will leave it at that, feel free to respond, I am checking out

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by Henchman

Just make sure that the minute the schedules gets messed up, you start emailing them. Create a paper trail. And you can never be blamed.

Absolutely.

The very hour something is late I start adding on hours to the delivery.

If they dont like it I'm afraid I'm one of the "fire your clients" sort of people

[audiobob]

Originally Posted by Henchman

Well, that's life in post. Just don't fall into the trap of caring more than the client is willing to pay for.

Ok, this is going on a t-shirt.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by totalgear

I can also tell you you are wrong for I have also mixed a lot of stuff. Content producers only care about audio when it fails, it only has the leftover budgets.

I will leave it at that, feel free to respond, I am checking out

Even mixing reality Tv here in LA, I know the producers care about who and where their shows are being done. There are a couple of facilities that do a lot of the reality stuff. Levels and Wildwoods, and the owners are very particular who mixes and works on their shows.

So, it just depends on the type of work you are doing.

[thebryanparker]

Originally Posted by totalgear

I can also tell you you are wrong for I have also mixed a lot of stuff. Content producers only care about audio when it fails, it only has the leftover budgets.

I will leave it at that, feel free to respond, I am checking out

I'm sorry that's been your experience. That seems really depressing and demotivating. But trust me, that's not all content producers. We've been blessed to have clients who really care about the audio work we do on a creative level, both on the reality side and the scripted side. Getting useful notes or recognition of good work we've done is a huge motivator for me, in that I feel like we're really telling a story together.

Don't stay bummed. There are good, insightful, quality-oriented clients out there.

Of course, that doesn't mean they never throw a crazy deadline at you...

[1320 P.]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I have been creating a ePaper trail from the day everything was late.
I guess I will have to start choosing what is more important to the story to get done and what we can get away from using. This also takes up time.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Maybe it is just me but I find the people that are always putting unreasonable deadlines on their projects are also the ones that are not themselves organized.

They also tend to be the ones that want everything NOW!! but are slow to approve things and also are the ones who are always asking for discounts and "isn't there someway you can do that cheaper?"

Post is always going to be hectic and last minute changes are inevitable but you just have to understand that going in.

I had a client that I was working with recently. She was always talking in broad contexts and I could never get her to give me a strait answer when it came when she wanted me to and when she wanted me to get things done. Last minute requests seemed to be her modus operandi and the breaking point was calling me very very late on a Saturday night of the past Labor Day weekend and wanting yet another proposal for a project by Monday morning. If this had been a good long term client I would have gone out of my was to help her but we had yet to do any real work for her and she was always asking for quotes for work that never led to anything. I told her I would have the proposal to her on Tuesday morning at the start of the normal work week and told her that I did not really appreciate her calling me very late at night on a holiday weekend. She got upset and slammed the phone in my ear.

Some people just expect you to roll over numerous times and never question what or why they are asking you to always do last minute things and never committing to any work that will lead to making some real money. I personally think that this women was using my quotes to show to someone else or to get other companies to lower their bids. I will, of course, never know but we did a lot of quotes and never got any work in return.

The clients that are the ones you want are the ones that are organized and let you know in advance when they will be needing various things from you and are also the ones that realize that they have to pay real money for real work.

Good topic!

[1320 P.]

The clients that are the ones you want are the ones that are organized and let you know in advance when they will be needing various things from you and are also the ones that realize that they have to pay real money for real work.

I am not a religious man but, AMEN!!!