I compose. I need an agent. I need your advice, guys.
Hello, everybody!
I write really interesting music and want it to be my job to compose for films. (examples attached), so guys, could you please give me some useful info?
May be quick tips just to start in the right direction, where can I search for the agent, how to negotiate more effective, etc.
PLEASE, don't think that I'm just another silly composer searching for quick money or something - I live music, really putting myself into it and reading a lot of information regarding the sphere of activity I want to get into.
I'll be more than glad to learn from somebody who is really talanted and knows how it all works (you guys are always nice and open to help somebody you think is nice. Hope I'm nice enough=) ).
Thanks in advance, I hope this thread will change my life for better at least a little bit=)
maybe it's a language thing, but please, NEVER say "I write really interesting music". Why not? It raises the hairs on the back of my neck; I'll be the judge of what is really interesting, you just supply me with more diverse samples, a lot better recordings and way more original stuff than this...
This was me pretending to be a producer looking for a composer. Be humble, get better recordings and provide examples in all genres. The creepy stuff is the easiest to do.
First, I just got back from the Bahamas yesterday. Lovely place. Second, you don't need an agent. Third, you need to exhibit much more ability and versatility in your examples, as far as instrumentation and styles. You need to be able to write and realistically record/mix in just about any style. I often get asked to write in crazy genres I'm absolutely not familiar with, but after hearing a few examples, it should not be a problem to generate a pleasing facsimile that works for the task at hand. So if metal-infused polka is needed, you have to be ready. And scoring to picture is a necessity. You need examples of work scored to picture, since it is an entirely different beast from writing music freehand.
That said...best of luck in a most competitive field.
I don't know where you are in life exactly, but you should get a job writing for an established composer. Preferably in advertising. That will give you a healthy shock and it's a good first step to landing your own gig.
Best of luck. Thanks for sharing the music.
__________________ Nathaniel Reichman Music Producer – Re-recording Mixer Rhumba Recorders/Murmur Music
There are definitely post houses that specialize in scoring/music for post. I'm not sure how many would be in the Bahamas, but trying to link yourself with them might be a good start.
__________________
Jesse Flaitz - Production sound and audio post. Greater NYC area. http://pedanticsound.net
“A cable is a source of potential trouble connecting two other sources of potential trouble.”
First, I just got back from the Bahamas yesterday. Lovely place. Second, you don't need an agent. Third, you need to exhibit much more ability and versatility in your examples, as far as instrumentation and styles. You need to be able to write and realistically record/mix in just about any style. I often get asked to write in crazy genres I'm absolutely not familiar with, but after hearing a few examples, it should not be a problem to generate a pleasing facsimile that works for the task at hand. So if metal-infused polka is needed, you have to be ready. And scoring to picture is a necessity. You need examples of work scored to picture, since it is an entirely different beast from writing music freehand.
That said...best of luck in a most competitive field.
Wow, yeah "lovely" is the best word.
So if I don't have an agent - how can I find me a job? Surfing on forums for "Sorry, but we are students and we can't pay" or "This is going to be a short film, we didn't even start shooting it, but please leave your portfolios and contacts"?
I thought agents have some connections so they can find some real job for me, since "real" filmmakers aren't even wasting their time on searching for a composer on some websites.
So, I should be some kind of jack-of-all-trades? Isn't it just silly?
Yeah - I can write metal or rock music too (my main genre), but I thought I should give some really good and interesting materials, not just throw a piece of "Me, doing something I'm not familiar with".
Thank you for your input, thats made me start thinking again.
I don't know where you are in life exactly, but you should get a job writing for an established composer. Preferably in advertising. That will give you a healthy shock and it's a good first step to landing your own gig.
Wow, yeah "lovely" is the best word.
So if I don't have an agent - how can I find me a job? Surfing on forums for "Sorry, but we are students and we can't pay" or "This is going to be a short film, we didn't even start shooting it, but please leave your portfolios and contacts"?
I thought agents have some connections so they can find some real job for me, since "real" filmmakers aren't even wasting their time on searching for a composer on some websites.
So, I should be some kind of jack-of-all-trades? Isn't it just silly?
Yeah - I can write metal or rock music too (my main genre), but I thought I should give some really good and interesting materials, not just throw a piece of "Me, doing something I'm not familiar with".
Thank you for your input, thats made me start thinking again.
soundfx is quite right, and you are labouring under a misconception. Yes, THEORETICALLY an agent will get you gigs, however at where you are, all it will do is waste your time. An agent capable of getting big gigs, probably has a roster of established composers who will get the call long before you do, and only once in a while will someone want to go with someone "new", and even then, you're probably one of several dozen. Harsh but true. I had a great talk with the folks at CAA who rep a writer/director friend of mine. His advice was that while he'd rep me, at this point I'd probably get no more work that I already had. When many different film makers are already calling you, THEN is a good time for an agent, since at that point you don't have time to deal with what the agent does, or if you start dealing with major studios and want to get a better deal. The truth is most indie filmmakers go with people they KNOW, so you're best bet is to get out there and meet filmmakers. Notice I didn't necessarily say work for free with them, but get to meet them. I have no idea what the film and tv scene is like down there, but check for local film offices, filmmaker groups, etc. etc. etc. Go to the meetings, have cards, and introduce yourself politely to everyone. I guarantee it will get you more gigs than an agent at this point. I suspect you come from the Music industry and just like that, it's far more about who you know, than necessarily how good you are.
And finally I cannot stress enough the suggestion to work with an established composer as an assistant. There's a REASON all those Remote Control guys get gigs! Working as an assistant will allow you to learn the craft and technique (scoring to pic is VASTLY different than pure composition), AND introduce you to many folks. I work mainly as a Mixer, but the majority of my paid composition has been done working as an assistant for the lead composer here.
Good luck. It's not an easy industry to break in... but patience is rewarded. Don't expect to be scoring big films next week, but if you're willing to keep going, once the door DOES open, many more will follow.
__________________
Howard Sonnenburg
Composer/Sound Designer/Engineer/Gadabout www.sonsey.com
"Nice Camera... how's the f#$%ing script?" - Adrian Langley
I thought I might expand on what others have said. maybe it'll help.
Agents...
An agent in the TV/Film world is your sales person. Until you are actually selling the product (your skills) on your own, no Agent can help you. The way an agent "sells" you on a future project is by using your previous projects as a sales pitch.
What previous feature length movies have you scored? Have any won "Best Score" in any film festival? have any won "best film" in any film festival? Have any turned a profit of at least 20%?
You see, NOBODY is going to pay you to learn how to do something. Nobody is going to pay you to do something you have never done before. If you have never scored to picture, how can you expect someone to hire you to do it?
If you love wood-working and build little bird houses at home, do you honestly think someone is going to give you a $300,000 budget and pay you $20,000 to be the contractor and build a 4 bedroom house that they had an architect draft?
There is Soooooo much to scoring to picture. You are going to need to get a lot of practice doing it before someone will actually be willing to pay you to do it. And more importantly you are going to need to get a lot more paid gigs before an agent could even start "selling" you to new film productions. Agents come after you are already working a lot. It's kind of like franchising a restaurant. The mom and pop restaurant (i.e. you) needs to be successful and have several locations open and extremely profitable before a third party company will come in and help you franchise your restaurant into a national (or international) chain. Do you think Taco Bell or McDonalds started as a franchise? No, they started as a small independently owned restaurant and they were so successful they were able to have other people (i.e. agents) come in and help them.
One of the best ways to get that experience needed, as others have mentioned, is working as an assistant to an already established composer.
Right now there are pretty much two ways you will be able to get a lot of work. one is working as an assistant to a composer. The other is working for free on shorts and indie/student projects. Unfortunately right now those are your two options. Like I said, nobody is going to pay you to do a job you have never done before and for all intents and purposes do not know how to do.
"We were working on Raiders [of the Lost Ark]. He [Ben Burt] told me that the sound source for opening the lid of the ark in the last reel was within 20'. I couldn't figure it out. It turned out to be lifting the back off the toilet above the water chamber, and slowing it down." -Tomlinson Holman
That said...best of luck in a most competitive field.
Perhaps we could say *the* most competitive field - may not be statistically true in some survey somewhere, but in reality, it's close enough.
As there is good practical advice already given here, I'll paraphrase something I heard from a rather successful songwriter many years ago:
If there is anything in this world you've thought you might do to make a decent living other than composing, do it. If you simply can not live without composing, pursue a stable career elsewhere and enjoy doing it as a hobby. If you can't live without making your living composing, work hard and you might get lucky.
It sounded overly harsh and pessimistic at the time, but this writer was giving wise, sobering advice.
Set realistic expectations and above all, consider how you compare to competition that is more successful than you. Be brutally honest with yourself, decide if it's worth the risk, then map out a plan to start working your way in.
To know your capabilities, you have to be able to honestly evaluate your limitations.
soundfx is quite right, and you are labouring under a misconception. Yes, THEORETICALLY an agent will get you gigs, however at where you are, all it will do is waste your time. An agent capable of getting big gigs, probably has a roster of established composers who will get the call long before you do, and only once in a while will someone want to go with someone "new", and even then, you're probably one of several dozen. Harsh but true. I had a great talk with the folks at CAA who rep a writer/director friend of mine. His advice was that while he'd rep me, at this point I'd probably get no more work that I already had. When many different film makers are already calling you, THEN is a good time for an agent, since at that point you don't have time to deal with what the agent does, or if you start dealing with major studios and want to get a better deal. The truth is most indie filmmakers go with people they KNOW, so you're best bet is to get out there and meet filmmakers. Notice I didn't necessarily say work for free with them, but get to meet them. I have no idea what the film and tv scene is like down there, but check for local film offices, filmmaker groups, etc. etc. etc. Go to the meetings, have cards, and introduce yourself politely to everyone. I guarantee it will get you more gigs than an agent at this point. I suspect you come from the Music industry and just like that, it's far more about who you know, than necessarily how good you are.
And finally I cannot stress enough the suggestion to work with an established composer as an assistant. There's a REASON all those Remote Control guys get gigs! Working as an assistant will allow you to learn the craft and technique (scoring to pic is VASTLY different than pure composition), AND introduce you to many folks. I work mainly as a Mixer, but the majority of my paid composition has been done working as an assistant for the lead composer here.
Good luck. It's not an easy industry to break in... but patience is rewarded. Don't expect to be scoring big films next week, but if you're willing to keep going, once the door DOES open, many more will follow.
I think many other guys responded in my thread because they saw your post here, serious posts attract more serious posts. It's always nice to see somebody paying attention and being actually helpful.
Maybe you have any tips on how to organize my workspace better to practice in scoring to picture? (It actually matters, comfort matters a lot for me). Would be more than nice of you if you'll give me some tips here.
btw, should I ask on forums like Gearslutz that I want to work for some composer as the assistant? How should I do it properly?
There is Soooooo much to scoring to picture. You are going to need to get a lot of practice doing it before someone will actually be willing to pay you to do it. And more importantly you are going to need to get a lot more paid gigs before an agent could even start "selling" you to new film productions. Agents come after you are already working a lot. It's kind of like franchising a restaurant. The mom and pop restaurant (i.e. you) needs to be successful and have several locations open and extremely profitable before a third party company will come in and help you franchise your restaurant into a national (or international) chain. Do you think Taco Bell or McDonalds started as a franchise? No, they started as a small independently owned restaurant and they were so successful they were able to have other people (i.e. agents) come in and help them.
True. Thank you for placing a good brick in the right place for my "House", it made me feel more conscious, can't overrate that.
Perhaps we could say *the* most competitive field - may not be statistically true in some survey somewhere, but in reality, it's close enough.
As there is good practical advice already given here, I'll paraphrase something I heard from a rather successful songwriter many years ago:
If there is anything in this world you've thought you might do to make a decent living other than composing, do it. If you simply can not live without composing, pursue a stable career elsewhere and enjoy doing it as a hobby. If you can't live without making your living composing, work hard and you might get lucky.
It sounded overly harsh and pessimistic at the time, but this writer was giving wise, sobering advice.
Set realistic expectations and above all, consider how you compare to competition that is more successful than you. Be brutally honest with yourself, decide if it's worth the risk, then map out a plan to start working your way in.
To know your capabilities, you have to be able to honestly evaluate your limitations.
You know, when I just started - I didn't even think about all these difficulties and nuances I'm facing now, but it's not that I was some kind of unthinking guy, I just didn't care what I'll have to go through because I knew - I'll make it anyways.
Not that I want to compose as my main and only job, I'm interested in a lot of things (Will be a fitness model next year, sometimes I spend a lot more time on training than writing music), I have many ways to go, but I take this whole Art thing very serious.
I won't just write some music, because somebody needs it and I'll get paid for it - I must be familiar with what I do and with masterpiece I compose for.
So - may be I won't get all gigs in the world, but I'll definitely get involved in what I feel and what somebody feels that is "mine", since The Art is not just about hiring somebody to do something that just fits in.
So basically - I want to be recognizable, so filmmakers (game developers, etc) will be coming at me because they want ME to do MY thing, letting me add the missing puzzle to their piece of Art.
This is why I'm not going to be the jack-of-all-trades, I rather do something I'm gifted with.
Thank you for responding, your post reminded me the interview with Steven Pressfield somehow. It kinda changed my life.
Being a "jack of all trades" doesn't imply genericness or a lack of integrity, but more a sweeping knowledge and overall facility with music in general. A few months ago, I was asked to score a few scenes for a 9 minute rap video based on the movie "Drive". I had never seen "Drive", but I downloaded the soundtrack and scored 4 minutes to picture in exactly that style in about 5 hours. First draft approved and sent out to the masses. Check cashed. Anyway, point is that you can only do ONE very myopic style and perhaps 50 art film patrons hear your work....or you can learn the overall art of composing and tens of millions of people can hear your work and you can make a decent living. Just saying. But you're going to work for free for a while regardless. Definitely need some work examples to picture. Vimeo is good for that.
You clearly have a ways to go to get to a professional standard, but you can get there. Make as many connections as possible. THAT's where the work comes from.
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