sound editor vs sound designer?

[Henchman]

Well, IMO, I can sound edit. Meaning, I can cut BG's and hard effects using libraries and existing sounds, as good as the next guy. I would never call myself a sounddesigner. As that is someone who has the talent to use various programs and source material to come up with really great, non-library, distinct original sounds and sound effects.

[PoxyMusic]

Originally Posted by asterix2k10

What is a sound editor (in post audio)? How does a sound editor differ from a sound designer?

A sound designer tends to be responsible for the emotional atmosphere, whereas an editor responds to less subjective reality. There can be a lot of overlap in these duties.

If a person pounds on a front door, the editor covers it.
If Godzilla pounds on a concrete dam, the sound designer covers it.

[tom_lowe]

Originally Posted by PoxyMusic

A sound designer tends to be responsible for the emotional atmosphere, whereas an editor responds to less subjective reality. There can be a lot of overlap in these duties.

If a person pounds on a front door, the editor covers it.
If Godzilla pounds on a concrete dam, the sound designer covers it.

I think the UK terminology is slightly different and can also dependent on budget. If one person does all sound work, they tend to be called a sound designer, as I suppose they are "designing" the overall sound of the production.

Also I believe the academy still don't recognise the term "sound designer" so they have to be called the sound editor.

Obviously there is a difference, but I think the terminology is becoming increasingly blurred, especially this side of the pond.

[georgia]

IMHO: A sound editor can be a sound designer, and a sound designer can be an editor... on a lot of projects they are , in fact, the same person. If you pinned me to a wall for a difference, I might suggest a Sound Designer is someone who creates the overall sound scape for a project, where a sound editor is someone who simply created or manipulates various parts of a sound field. I truly, find it difficult to define either as separate. In fact, definitions and roles in sound are just getting more and more blurry, especially in post.
Once upon a time you might hire a Dialogue editor to edit dialogue recorded on set and the an ADR recordist to record ADR, followed by the ADR editor or maybe the dialogue editor editing the dialogue. Perhaps a Foley walker to perform the Foley while a Foley Recordist records the Foley. Add in a music editor to cleanup and re-edit the music for the project. Then another sound editor might create effects and background sound. Or they might hire the Production Recordist to provide room tone and other surrounding sounds. Then another editor might put all of this together and pass it off to the re-recording engineer and their team to mix.... Today, heck I know a lot of people who do all of the above.

I guess for me, if i'm one of the people building pre-dubs and prepping for a mix by creating pieces of the puzzle .. i'd list myself as a sound editor... If i'm the one coming up with all the ideas and pulling the pre-dubs together and it's my sound field, I might call myself a Sound Designer...

I guess its up to the editor and the producer to decide what to call the position based on the work.

I've been know to take music, edit the crap out of it, create ambience and backgrounds that play into, around, and with the music, then take sound effects and "tune" them to be in key ( or out of key ) to the music and ambience work.. then mix the whole thing in the dub stage... Am I a sound editor, music editor, sound designer, re-recording engineer, or what?

cheers
geo

[tom_lowe]

Originally Posted by georgia

I've been know to take music, edit the crap out of it, create ambience and backgrounds that play into, around, and with the music, then take sound effects and "tune" them to be in key ( or out of key ) to the music and ambience work.. then mix the whole thing in the dub stage... Am I a sound editor, music editor, sound designer, re-recording engineer, or what?

cheers
geo

I guess the generic "sound engineer" title could be used here?!

[Smallbudgetguru]

Originally Posted by georgia

IMHO: A sound editor can be a sound designer, and a sound designer can be an editor... on a lot of projects they are , in fact, the same person. If you pinned me to a wall for a difference, I might suggest a Sound Designer is someone who creates the overall sound scape for a project, where a sound editor is someone who simply created or manipulates various parts of a sound field. I truly, find it difficult to define either as separate. In fact, definitions and roles in sound are just getting more and more blurry, especially in post.
Once upon a time you might hire a Dialogue editor to edit dialogue recorded on set and the an ADR recordist to record ADR, followed by the ADR editor or maybe the dialogue editor editing the dialogue. Perhaps a Foley walker to perform the Foley while a Foley Recordist records the Foley. Add in a music editor to cleanup and re-edit the music for the project. Then another sound editor might create effects and background sound. Or they might hire the Production Recordist to provide room tone and other surrounding sounds. Then another editor might put all of this together and pass it off to the re-recording engineer and their team to mix.... Today, heck I know a lot of people who do all of the above.

I guess for me, if i'm one of the people building pre-dubs and prepping for a mix by creating pieces of the puzzle .. i'd list myself as a sound editor... If i'm the one coming up with all the ideas and pulling the pre-dubs together and it's my sound field, I might call myself a Sound Designer...

I guess it up to the editor and the producer to decide what to call the position based on the work.

I've been know to take music, edit the crap out of it, create ambience and backgrounds that play into, around, and with the music, then take sound effects and "tune" them to be in key ( or out of key ) to the music and ambience work.. then mix the whole thing in the dub stage... Am I a sound editor, music editor, sound designer, re-recording engineer, or what?

cheers
geo

Nicely put Geo!

I usually go by Supervising sound editor as work with a small team. I oversee the editorial and handle major design moments, the films entire "soundtrack" is my responsibility therefore the SSE title works in those situations.

My guys that work with me edit dialogue, foley, adr, backgrounds, sfx you name it. They get credited usually as "Sound Editor" as to us its an all encompasing "i edited sound on this picture" sort of thing. When one guy is overseeing the dialogue, he gets dialogue editor added etc, same with shooting ADR or Foley.

While I do consider myself and my crew sound designers, we actually rarely use that in the credits.

When I work on a short film, its often just me and a Foley team so I do sometimes get credited as "Sound Designer/Re-Recording Mixer"

I think Geo explained it very well above.

[its_in_da_mix]

Georgia - your posts are always a breath of fresh air. Thanks for that. And a million thumbs up for the one above.

As one of those people who gets a QT and an omf on his plate, with the instruction "do the sound" (), and the work is mine from a to z, I'd say:

Originally Posted by tom_lowe

I guess the generic "sound engineer" title could be used here?!

Yup. Sounds good. I can live with that.


Asterix: Unfortunately, in my experience, people who call themselves "sound designers" are trendy young people with smartphones and designer glasses who try to do the stuff they have read about in the latest Sound on Sound, with all the latest sample packs, but can't do a proper sound edit to save their lives. They also look down on the sound editors and the mixers, as these are just button-pushers (in their eyes).


IMHO, "sound designer" is a title that should be earned, and given to you by peers who respect your work.


But that's just MHO opinion. Very HO.
Sorry, pet peeve. I'll get off my soapbox now.....

[Steven1145]

Originally Posted by its_in_da_mix

IMHO, "sound designer" is a title that should be earned, and given to you by peers who respect your work.

I agree.


Sent from my XT910 using Gearslutz App

[pethenis]

I get credited and listed all the time as sounddesigner, mainly because I do everything and the production companies often don't even ask me how I want to appear on the credits. (I guess because they think it sounds more flash than re-recording mixer or whatever).

I call someone a sounddesigner if he/she makes new soundFX based on original recorded sounds - organic or synthesized. Wish there where projects here with enough budget to just focus on that aspect; for once not worrying about the dialogue and just make beautiful sound...

[tom_lowe]

Originally Posted by pethenis

I get credited and listed all the time as sounddesigner, mainly because I do everything and the production companies often don't even ask me how I want to appear on the credits. (I guess because they think it sounds more flash than re-recording mixer or whatever).

I call someone a sounddesigner if he/she makes new soundFX based on original recorded sounds - organic or synthesized. Wish there where projects here with enough budget to just focus on that aspect; for once not worrying about the dialogue and just make beautiful sound...

I actually usually ask to be sound editor/dubbing mixer INSTEAD of sound designer, because I think so many people call themselves "sound designers" (the SoS reading, sample-pack owning, iPhone owners) that it actually sounds better, and shows I actually KNOW what I'm doing and get the right credit.

I can and do do "sound design" but if the turn around is quick, I will not spend loads of time creating/recording new sounds, so therefore feel that title would be misleading, unless of course the term is being used to describe someone who designed the overall sound of the production.

Hmmm, maybe I'll just stick to "sound engineer" too!

[Steven1145]

My credits as Sound Designer are not because I created new sounds for a T-Rex, but because I supervised the whole audio post production, shaping the sound to the ideas and desires the director had.
I'm very happy to be credited as sound editor, or re-recording mixer, when the project had me be just that.

[Sndnerd]

Though my experience is limited, I've noticed that a lot film makers and producers around here defer to the all-encompassing term 'sound designer'. It covers all the bases, and I think deep down emphasizes the 'art' as opposed to the 'craft'. Good selling point in my books..

[Pedantic Sound]

Originally Posted by Henchman

Well, IMO, I can sound edit. Meaning, I can cut BG's and hard effects using libraries and existing sounds, as good as the next guy. I would never call myself a sounddesigner. As that is someone who has the talent to use various programs and source material to come up with really great, non-library, distinct original sounds and sound effects.

Pretty much this. The person who put together a lion, a donkey and a tire screech to get a crazy scream sound are the types I would call sound designer. I might call myself a sound editor/sound engineer but sound designer... not so much. After working with a real sound design guy a few times it's easy to tell the difference (tho he's also a fantastic sound editor).

Similar to how I would call myself a guitar player, but musician... not so much.

Might be splitting hairs, but just my thoughts.

[brucie]

Interesting question. I consider myself a sound designer as I design sounds (not just for films), this generally involves making a sound up from first principles (i.e. basic waveforms). In relation to film (when luck enough to work with a director whom values sound) it also involved getting involved in conceptualising the over all sound 'looking and feel' of their project. These are the best projects, but vary rare at the level I work in as there is no time/money/desire.

Having said that, in the process of designing for indie films, low budget etc, there is such little understanding of the differences between the jobs, that you tend to end up doing sound editing/dialogue editing and even composing!

[philper]

I wish I DID get to do real sound design more--re the USA-Hollywood definition of what that means: creative sound work making new sounds from many sources etc etc that are not library-downloadable etc. I've always felt weird about that title for a lot of what I do, which is really sound editing, repair, buff+fluff, sfx search/cut/add and mixing, so I usually ask filmmakers to change it to "sound edit and mix" or something like that. I have no problem at all taking a sound designer credit when I feel I've done that kind of work on a project, though, even if I'm doing the other work too.

phil p

[paulo m]

I prefer to be credited as Sound Artist

[cocamycola89]

The sound designers always get their awards for "achievements in sound editing" at the Oscars... so you can bet there is some editing involved.

[FullFrequency]

I prefer sound lord of all the universe :p

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by Steven1145

My credits as Sound Designer are not because I created new sounds for a T-Rex, but because I supervised the whole audio post production, shaping the sound to the ideas and desires the director had.
I'm very happy to be credited as sound editor, or re-recording mixer, when the project had me be just that.

I agree with this ^^^

we need to try to excise the notion of "engineer" if we are talking about creative work- we might use technical skills in our work, but it will only diminish any sense of us being considered "artists" amongst the community of the film world-

an engineer is the person who fixes a technical problem.

[insomaniac]

Originally Posted by FullFrequency

I prefer sound lord of all the universe :p

The guys who make the credits must LOVE you!

[D'Animation]

Very hard but I believe there is a notion that sound designer carries more credo so it gets overused.

I generally get Supervising Sound Engineer or something like that - as others have mentioned above, I supervise the sound editing, design (where applicable cause some shows are just simple editing, NOT Sound Design as I think of it), re-edit or redesign new sounds on the fly and then mix the thing (and I do not believe in the multiple credit thing)

Originally Posted by georgia

I've been know to take music, edit the crap out of it, create ambience and backgrounds that play into, around, and with the music, then take sound effects and "tune" them to be in key ( or out of key ) to the music and ambience work.. then mix the whole thing in the dub stage... Am I a sound editor, music editor, sound designer, re-recording engineer, or what?

Exactly - end up doing this all the time especially on preschool animation

It bugs me when people (a lot of younger inexperienced people especially but also some elder who should know better) put down on their imdb or linkedin "sound designer" or something to that effect when I damn well know they plonked in library ambiance tracks on a few eps or something. I know what I was responsible for as do they so I just hope prospective clients or employers see through the titles and take time to ascertain a persons skill....I know, nice guys finish last right?!

[FullFrequency]

Originally Posted by insomaniac

The guys who make the credits must LOVE you!

Ha just imagine! In truth I always get dubbing mixer. If I'm given sound engineer I ask nicely for it to be changed. I didn't do the cable soldering on the show after all.....

[tom_lowe]

Originally Posted by FullFrequency

Ha just imagine! In truth I always get dubbing mixer. If I'm given sound engineer I ask nicely for it to be changed. I didn't do the cable soldering on the show after all.....

Cable soldering would probably more likely be the job of "sound technician" or such like.

[RobertH]

Originally Posted by Steven1145

My credits as Sound Designer are not because I created new sounds for a T-Rex, but because I supervised the whole audio post production, shaping the sound to the ideas and desires the director had.
I'm very happy to be credited as sound editor, or re-recording mixer, when the project had me be just that.

I also agree with Steven and Charles.
This has been a long time pet peeve of mine.
Just the other day a guy rings our buzzer delivering food to the studio.
Realizing it is a Post Studio, asks if we need an intern, and that he is a "Sound Designer".
It took 15 years of sound effects editing and mixing before I became somewhat comfortable calling myself a Sound Designer.

And that's only because I oversee the whole soundscape.
Dialog/Music/Effects. Not just editorial , but how it is mixed.
From work print cuts to final print master.

IMHO, just because you pitch, reverse, time compress etc...
That does not make you a Sound Designer.
Walter Murch had a great interview about this years ago.

[GregorioM]

This is a problem across the whole of the audio industry. I've seen first year students get a laptop with Garageband installed and the next day call themselves a music producer or edits a mate's home video and call themselves a Sound Designer. Many in the Indy film world only know one role: "Audio Post Guy". There really doesn't seem to be many outside the audio post world who really knows what sound design is and this situation is only made worse by all those calling themselves Sound Designer who aren't. I've even seen the term "Supervising Sound Designer" starting to be used. What is that, the person who supervises all the sound designers?

Here's my opinion, FWIW:

Someone who edits sound is a Sound Editor.
Someone who edits sound FX is a Sound FX Editor.
Someone who designs sound FX is a Sound FX Designer.
Someone who supervises/manages the other sound editors is a Supervising Sound Editor.
Someone who works collaboratively with the Director, Picture Editor and others (from pre-production onwards) to design the film for sound and then help to implement that vision in post is a Sound Designer.

This definition of Sound Designer is more along the lines outlined by Randy Thom and by this definition the vast majority of films don't have sound design. Maybe we need a new term, like DOS (Director of Sound), Creative Sound Editor or Sound Architect for the jobs that many of us do, namely, all or most of the audio post jobs rolled into one. But then that's not such a great idea either, another audio post term is probably the last thing we need when so many don't understand the existing roles/terms.

G

[nzl62]

Originally Posted by GregorioM

This is a problem across the whole of the audio industry. I've seen first year students get a laptop with Garageband installed and the next day call themselves a music producer or edits a mate's home video and call themselves a Sound Designer. Many in the Indy film world only know one role: "Audio Post Guy". There really doesn't seem to be many outside the audio post world who really knows what sound design is and this situation is only made worse by all those calling themselves Sound Designer who aren't. I've even seen the term "Supervising Sound Designer" starting to be used. What is that, the person who supervises all the sound designers?

Here's my opinion, FWIW:

Someone who edits sound is a Sound Editor.
Someone who edits sound FX is a Sound FX Editor.
Someone who designs sound FX is a Sound FX Designer.
Someone who supervises/manages the other sound editors is a Supervising Sound Editor.
Someone who works collaboratively with the Director, Picture Editor and others (from pre-production onwards) to design the film for sound and then help to implement that vision in post is a Sound Designer.

This definition of Sound Designer is more along the lines outlined by Randy Thom and by this definition the vast majority of films don't have sound design. Maybe we need a new term, like DOS (Director of Sound), Creative Sound Editor or Sound Architect for the jobs that many of us do, namely, all or most of the audio post jobs rolled into one. But then that's not such a great idea either, another audio post term is probably the last thing we need when so many don't understand the existing roles/terms.

G

Well said sir

[its_in_da_mix]

GregorioM, well said indeed.

Originally Posted by GregorioM

Many in the Indy film world only know one role: "Audio Post Guy"

Ehm..... yup.... that would cover it....

Although, having just gotten my new work schedule, I think "Audio Post Slave" might be more appropriate.....

[polchik]

Originally Posted by GregorioM

This is a problem across the whole of the audio industry. I've seen first year students get a laptop with Garageband installed and the next day call themselves a music producer or edits a mate's home video and call themselves a Sound Designer. Many in the Indy film world only know one role: "Audio Post Guy". There really doesn't seem to be many outside the audio post world who really knows what sound design is and this situation is only made worse by all those calling themselves Sound Designer who aren't. I've even seen the term "Supervising Sound Designer" starting to be used. What is that, the person who supervises all the sound designers?

Here's my opinion, FWIW:

Someone who edits sound is a Sound Editor.
Someone who edits sound FX is a Sound FX Editor.
Someone who designs sound FX is a Sound FX Designer.
Someone who supervises/manages the other sound editors is a Supervising Sound Editor.
Someone who works collaboratively with the Director, Picture Editor and others (from pre-production onwards) to design the film for sound and then help to implement that vision in post is a Sound Designer.

This definition of Sound Designer is more along the lines outlined by Randy Thom and by this definition the vast majority of films don't have sound design. Maybe we need a new term, like DOS (Director of Sound), Creative Sound Editor or Sound Architect for the jobs that many of us do, namely, all or most of the audio post jobs rolled into one. But then that's not such a great idea either, another audio post term is probably the last thing we need when so many don't understand the existing roles/terms.

G

x2 !!

Designing for sound by Randy Thom