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new non-linear VTR software is about to hit the market. TESTERS NEEDED!!
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14th August 2012
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new non-linear VTR software is about to hit the market. TESTERS NEEDED!!

Hey there guys,

I had a thread started a while ago where I was asking people what kind of software tools they wanted to see on the market.

One suggestion was to create a non-linear VTR as a standalone application that can be controlled via external MIDI timecode.
Most importantly, the new piece of software should just have the basic features but should be affordable ( not ridiculously high-priced as the ones already on the market ).

And now, quite some time later, the software is about to be finished!
Video Slave ( that's the name ) will cost 249 Dollars and will be available soon.

What I still need are a bunch of testers to make sure the software runs smoothly on a lot of different machines.
In return, I would offer a 100 Dollar discount or even a free license ( depending on the number of testers getting back to me )

So if you guys have a separate machine that is used for movie playback only to have your DAW free of all movie-related tasks, drop me a message!

I will get back to you asap!!

Thanks very much in advance!!

Flo
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14th August 2012
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Hi! What sort of functions will this video player have?
Sometimes our VCube is overkill, but resizing and reformatting the picture can be a godsend.
Could you share more info?
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Hey Steven,

I put a screenshot in the attachment of this post.
It primarily supports chasing QT clips to incoming MIDI timecode.

It is designed for people using for example a Mac Mini for their video playback tasks. You can run the application in full-screen mode ( without window boundaries or other bars ). Just attach a TV to your Mac ( via the standard display output connectors (DVI, VGA, HDMI ... )) and this won't feel like a PC monitor.
If you don't also need a video card for recording or to have a separate clock input, Video Slave should be all you need.

In the tests so far, we could reach a sync accuracy below 1/4 frame for 24/25/29.97 fps SD and HD video.

There are some features like streamers that I already have in mind and hope to integrate in a cost-free update for all customers in the near future. I'm also planning on adding LTC features and a lot more.
I am also totally open for feature requests!!

Is there anything in particular that you have in mind which a software like Video Slave needs to have to fit into your workflow?

Can provide more details if wanted.

Thanks!

Best,

Flo
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new non-linear VTR software is about to hit the market. TESTERS NEEDED!!-vs_screenshot.jpg  
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14th August 2012
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Nice clean GUI!
I like the playlist feature. Simple and easy to understand, but not as powerfull probably as a timeline like in an AVID or VCube (ie. making cuts in the picture to replace shots by new VFX for example).
I think a must-have would be a TC overlay, with maybe an option for feet-frames display.
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14th August 2012
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Thanks, glad you like it.
The main goal when designing the software was good usability and easy operation.
A timeline per se is of course more powerful, but also more complex.
So we chose the playlist design.

Interesting you mention the TC / feet-frames overlay as I was told by some guys that this would not be needed as the movies they get typically have more than enough counters already in them ;-)

But I think this should be easy to do.
Will look into it.
Thanks for the idea.
It's great to hear ideas from potential customers as they are ones that will (have to) use the product in the end.

Best,

Flo
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14th August 2012
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Really really interesting, just a quick question. Do you need a midi interface on both machines or will it run via usb?

Ok maybe 2 quick questions, it it available for PC?
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Hey Lion,

I'm sorry, but it will not run on PC.
A PC could be the timecode host though. So your DAW or whatever is sending the MTC, could be on a PC.

You don't necessarily need a MIDI interface, you can also use MIDI over LAN, which is by default available on all Mac platforms and can also be used on PCs.
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I'll give it a test for you. we run a bunch of macs on various operating systems from 10.5 to 10.7 ( we currently have VVTR or just run from intensity pro card... )

cheers
geo

PS: Yes, time code overlay would be quite nice. There are lots of counters on some projects and none on others, so the option is important.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgia View Post
I'll give it a test for you. we run a bunch of macs on various operating systems from 10.5 to 10.7 ( we currently have VVTR or just run from intensity pro card... )

cheers
geo

PS: Yes, time code overlay would be quite nice. There are lots of counters on some projects and none on others, so the option is important.
Hey georgia,

I will send you a serial number to activate the product tonight ( German time ) via PM.
Thanks for your interest!
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What will guarantee the constant speed of two machines, PT and Video Slave?
Can they stay in sync during the whole show, like feature film screening?
If I understand correctly, VS won't work with dedicated video cards, like BM Intensity, or DeckLink.
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14th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Branko View Post
What will guarantee the constant speed of two machines, PT and Video Slave?
Can they stay in sync during the whole show, like feature film screening?
If I understand correctly, VS won't work with dedicated video cards, like BM Intensity, or DeckLink.
Hey Branko,

if you keep supplying MTC, they will stay in sync.
VideoSlave will adjust the sync every once in a while if the drift gets higher than 1/4 frame.

You are correct. Right now, VS doesn't support dedicated video cards. I already considered supporting video card and I am pretty sure I will do this in an updated version in the near future.

Best,

Flo
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14th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Branko View Post
What will guarantee the constant speed of two machines, PT and Video Slave?
Good point, without a proper video reference there is the risk of the app dropping frames when dynamically resyncing to the incoming MTC. How does it handle this? God knows it can be annoying when screening with a client and the video player drops frames, sending the director or editor into a frenzy of "wait! stop! I saw a picture glitch" and such.

Also being able to shoot video out of a card like AJA or BMD would be a great bonus, but I'm guessing it's a bit more complicated to develop right?

Edit: CROSSPOST
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Yeah, I got your point on this one.
I already did a lot of testing of Video Slave's sync feature to make sure it runs as smooth as possible ( this actually took me months to get straight!! ).

In all my tests, I never had an external video clock attached to either one of my two devices ( DAW machine running PT 10 and Mac Mini running VS ) and it was extremely tough to actually make VS use its resyncing feature!!
In "normal" operation ( without creating artificial CPU load and network traffic ), VS was running for a whole reel without resyncing once. ( I guess it would've run even longer ;-) )

I was measuring and logging the drift after VS's initial resync ( to compensate startup delay ) for the whole time and it rarely even exceeded the 1/8 frame mark.

Bottom line : I can't guarantee there will never be a picture glitch ( as no other developer can ) but I can say that it never happened to me for the whole time developing the product.

One reason I am looking for testers is because I would love to have some pros getting their hands on it and see what happens when used in super complicated setups.

Quote:
Also being able to shoot video out of a card like AJA or BMD would be a great bonus, but I'm guessing it's a bit more complicated to develop right?
The main problem at the moment is that I don't own a Mac Pro and I also don't own a professional video card. These will be the first things I'm going to buy once VS hopefully starts to sell just great ;-)

Best,

Flo
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14th August 2012
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I'll give it a try. I use a windows based pt HDX mix rig and a osx hd native recorder/video player. I use a black magic video card to play out video to a projector. I could just switch to the hdmi out of my video card for testing. One question, in pro tools the qt playback looks much worse then the same QuickTime played back out of the black magic. Does VS have this same issue? Degraded video quality because it's not played out of the black magic?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandoncross View Post
I'll give it a try. I use a windows based pt HDX mix rig and a osx hd native recorder/video player. I use a black magic video card to play out video to a projector. I could just switch to the hdmi out of my video card for testing. One question, in pro tools the qt playback looks much worse then the same QuickTime played back out of the black magic. Does VS have this same issue? Degraded video quality because it's not played out of the black magic?
Hey Brandon,
thanks for your interest!

I'm sorry, but I can't give you a clear answer to the "degraded video quality" question as I never had a video being played out of a dedicated video card.
I just had VS running on a normal computer monitor.

Anyway, I will try my best to send you a beta version with all instructions and a valid serial to activate the product tonight.

Best,

Flo
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I'd certainly be interesting in testing it out. We run a dedicated Pro Tools system via Satellite Link with video out a Blackmagic Decklink Extreme HD card. A couple of important features to think about is definitely syncing to external clock source (video reference), but if it would work with Decklink or Aja cards, they would automatically sync to video reference. Also, machine control is a necessity, as in if I click anywhere on the timeline, or nudge frames, picture should follow. Without at least these two features, I don't think any pro would really consider this a contender for video playback in a pro situation.
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14th August 2012
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I am interested to give it a try as well. I am currently using Avid Satellite LE but I would really like to know how this performs as this would free up a Protools rig.

Let me know if you're still interested in people trying out Videoslave.
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MTC will allow it to play back. But it won't let you scrub. How does your product scrub?

Does your product loop with the driving audio? MTC is linear and won't allow looping. How do propose to work around that?

If it is via MMC, then it is deal breaker for anyone using Pro Tools with Satellite Link. The Satellite link option breaks MMC usage in PT. Otherwise, you are fine.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minister View Post
Does your product loop with the driving audio? MTC is linear and won't allow looping.
Tom, the problem you've mentioned is not related to MTC. The problem with looping is on ProTools side - I used Gallery's VVTR and it could not loop with PT, but it looped with Logic.



I am more than sure, that product based on MMC/MTC will work, also with non HD ProTools, but there are some limitation if you compare it to PT|HD with VSLE solution:
- no video looping
- no forward selection

From my point of view, the main advantage is the possibility of using Video Slave with non HD ProTools and other applications which are commonly installed, like Logic or other "music oriented" daw.

The problem is working with longer forms (I know, that such a player can resync the video on the fly), but there is a need for a pro solution with Reference In so the user would be sure that there will not be any drift during the playback.
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That's exactly the issue.
This isn't - as Kuba mentioned - MTC/MMC related, this is a Pro Tools thing.
I just checked the incoming MTC messages and there is absolutely no chance to recognize the loop end as PT just sends the MTC as if it the playback was advancing like in normal playback.
Logic on the other hand really sends timecode from the beginning of the loop after reaching the end.

So no chance for VideoSlave to follow Pro Tools loops.
Sorry

Best,

Flo

I totally agree on the Video Reference In argument.
I will definitely look into this in the near future!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuba_Pietrzak View Post
Tom, the problem you've mentioned is not related to MTC. The problem with looping is on ProTools side - I used Gallery's VVTR and it could not loop with PT, but it looped with Logic.
Ah. Thanks for the education. Never used Logic other than with an onboard QT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuba_Pietrzak View Post
I am more than sure, that product based on MMC/MTC will work, also with non HD ProTools, but there are some limitation if you compare it to PT|HD with VSLE solution:
- no video looping
- no forward selection
Somewhere along the way forward selection was fixed. At least I can do it in PT8 with either VVTR or Satellite Link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarflow View Post
That's exactly the issue.
This isn't - as Kuba mentioned - MTC/MMC related, this is a Pro Tools thing.
I just checked the incoming MTC messages and there is absolutely no chance to recognize the loop end as PT just sends the MTC as if it the playback was advancing like in normal playback.
Logic on the other hand really sends timecode from the beginning of the loop after reaching the end.

So no chance for VideoSlave to follow Pro Tools loops.
Sorry

Best,

Flo

I totally agree on the Video Reference In argument.
I will definitely look into this in the near future!!
Ok, no looping in Pro Tools. What about scrubbing, following automation point dragging?


And, I know you are just looking for Beta Testers, but, I am curious, how is your product different than ChainGang?

Thanks!
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It works on Mac!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minister View Post
Ah. Thanks for the education. Never used Logic other than with an onboard QT.

Somewhere along the way forward selection was fixed. At least I can do it in PT8 with either VVTR or Satellite Link.


Ok, no looping in Pro Tools. What about scrubbing, following automation point dragging?


And, I know you are just looking for Beta Testers, but, I am curious, how is your product different than ChainGang?

Thanks!
Scrubbing is using MMC ( haven't tried following automation, but I am almost sure it is also an MMC locate command leaving PT ) and is working fine in Video Slave.

I haven't compared it to ChainGang feature-wise, but the main thing is, that ChainGang isn't officially available for Mac. It is Java based and that's terrible on OS X as Apple is for some reason distributing their own version of the Java frameworks. Apple also doesn't document that well what they changed in their Java implementation, so it's tough to find out what one will need to change.

If I know correctly, this was the main reason of discontiuing ChainGang on the Mac.
I must admit that I never tried it.
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15th August 2012
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New Software

I would be keen to test this out for a flypack ADR rig,
Cheers,
Brian in Halifax
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Ok, the first bunch of licenses went out to the ones of you interested.
Thank you very much !!

Really appreciate your help!!

Best,

Flo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
I understand that this is not avail for PC (too bad), but how does this compare with MTCVideoSlave (http://symbiosonics.at/software/mtcvideoslave.php)?

phil p
I have never really tried this software because it isn't available on Mac
Also, I can't find a feature list which I could compare mine to.

So I can't give you an answer on this one.

Best,

Flo
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Hi Flo,
I would be keen to give this a try if you have a spare license.
It should work over the network MIDI right?

I am on Pro Tools 10 HD3 with D-Control and Sync I/O on Lion 10.7.4
I have a range of computers that can be candidates to host VS. What is the minimum requirement?
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Hey Mundox,

Thanks for your interest!!
The minimum requirements are Intel Macs running 10.6 or later.
I personally am always using network MIDI. Unless you plan to not have your host machine and VS in the same network, MIDIoverLAN is the way to go.
But VS doesn't care where the MIDI signal is coming from. You can choose the desired input from the preferences menu and you're good.

Will send you a license via PM later today.

Best,

Flo
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hi, I haven't seen anything from you as yet... send it along and I'll give it a shot. I can also check for sync lock over the lenght of a feature.

cheers
geo
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