Batman - TDKR mix

[cjguitar]

Originally Posted by Garret

Hunger games also sounded great.

Agreed! I haven't seen Dark Knight, but my suspicion would be that they mixed at a low playback level to compensate for the lowest common denominator, i.e. theaters that play back at extremely low levels. It's common for just about every theater in the US to turn down the playback system, even Arclight is at 6.5, AMC is at 5, and most other theaters are between 4-6 (I can't think of a single theater I've been to in the last few years that played at 7, other than industry screenings). It's frustrating as a mixer, as we try to mix at calibrated levels (85 db for film), but we know that there are very few theaters out there that will play at the Dolby standard 7. I'm sure the DGA played at 7, and therefore blew everybody's ears off…

[postprosound]

I do have to wonder, with all of this talk of mixing, - How was the sound editing?

[Garret]

Originally Posted by cjguitar

Agreed! I haven't seen Dark Knight, but my suspicion would be that they mixed at a low playback level to compensate for the lowest common denominator, i.e. theaters that play back at extremely low levels. It's common for just about every theater in the US to turn down the playback system, even Arclight is at 6.5, AMC is at 5, and most other theaters are between 4-6 (I can't think of a single theater I've been to in the last few years that played at 7, other than industry screenings). It's frustrating as a mixer, as we try to mix at calibrated levels (85 db for film), but we know that there are very few theaters out there that will play at the Dolby standard 7. I'm sure the DGA played at 7, and therefore blew everybody's ears off…

For me they also played the game of mixing the dialogue low in a deliberate attempt to make sure projectionists can't turn it down as the dialogue would be completely unintelligible. ( not that it was great anyway).
Sound editing was great. I thought there were some lovely sequences but the music just blew everything else away ( volume wise) so I think we missed a lot of nice things.
Obviously not a lot of ADR used either. A few scenes were particularly noisy. ( Bruce and Selina on dance floor being the worst).

[scullionj]

Originally Posted by Garret

Sound editing was great. I thought there were some lovely sequences but the music just blew everything else away ( volume wise) so I think we missed a lot of nice things.
Obviously not a lot of ADR used either. A few scenes were particularly noisy. ( Bruce and Selina on dance floor being the worst).

I definitely noticed that with a few of the scenes, you can kind of hear the CEDAR pumping a bit. Not the first time I've seen that happen with one of Nolan's movies, because he hates ADR. Doesn't really bother me all that much, though.

Editing was great, overall, I'd agree with that. Just wish that music didn't blow everything out - kind of like Inception. Some of the ADR definitely pulled me out of it at times, mainly with Bane and Batman in any scene where they were mixed with production.

I might be wrong, but was there any other product placement besides Lectrosonics? :P Lectro's transmitters made an appearance in Prison Break as well. And at least three actors from the Dark Knight series were stars in Prison Break - Wade Williams (Bellick/prison guard in TDKR), William Fichtner (Mahone/bank manager with a shotgun in TDK), and Reggie Lee (Bill Kim/a cop). Just, you know. Thought I'd...point out these vaguely interesting connections.

[BIGBANGBUZZ]

Originally Posted by Henchman

I disagree. Avengers sounded great.

I just think movies are wall to wall music these days.


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[Steven1145]

I saw it last night. The cinema was probably playing in back a bit low as my ears weren't blown off. However I must say that I did not like the Bane voice one bit, and had trouble understanding quite a few of his lines. Overall sound design was good, but I was not impressed with the dialogue (but I do know that a director usually had a heavy hand on the result due to ADR-aversion).

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[charlieclouser]

At my local theater, at which I usually love the audio level and quality, TDKR was insanely loud. Louder than the trailers, which are usually at the limit of being tolerable, but since these only last a couple of minutes I can usually take it. TDKR on the other hand was just.... whoa. TOO loud. (And this is coming from a guy who toured in a VERY loud band!)

The Bane's voice fx made it so I could only get about half of his dialog. Towards the end I actually put my fingers in my ears whenever he spoke and this eliminated a lot of the futz (but not the pitch fx) and raised my comprehension to 3/4.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought there was too much music, mixed too loud, and with too much bombast. Really distracting and fatiguing, and had a desensitizing effect on us.

And I also agree that Avengers (at the same theater) sounded great by comparison, score-wise and mix-wise.

[BIGBANGBUZZ]

Originally Posted by charlieclouser

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought there was too much music, mixed too loud, and with too much bombast. Really distracting and fatiguing, and had a desensitizing effect on us.

I think it's definitely a trend with lots of music in movies over the top and loud.
I like how music paints a picture, but I just don't get most scores in movies these days especially action films.
I don't like going to the cinema to watch a 2hours trailer.






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[brandoncross]

I just saw this movie at the Arclight in Pasadena. A really good sounding theater. I thought both batman and Bain's voice treatment was too much. They could have gotten the same effect going 1/2 as far with the prepossessing and it their dialogue would have sounded better.

Did anyone think all the DX in the movie was sounded compressed? I kept thinking the DX lacked dynamics, which is what I want to here in a movie. FX sounded great and the music sounded great as well. I liked the use of volume in the music. I just wanted the DX to sound more like a movie and less like TV. I also hated the script, story and thought their was way too much exposition.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by brandoncross

. I liked the use of volume in the music..

you must be joking.

[Einstein]

Bane's dialogue did seem a little "overdubbed" and unnatural, although I guess it was necessary to make it intelligible. The big WTF moment for me was in the Bane / Batman climax fight. They are fighting in front of what I think was a courthouse outside. The dialogue was nice and loud and then the fight movies inside to big marble room where everything drops like 12dB, even the dialogue. I felt like my ears had gotten clogged with fluid like being in a plane. It pulled me out of the movie for a moment or two right in the climax.

[brandoncross]

Originally Posted by Henchman

you must be joking.

No, their where 2 times when the mx was fighting the dx. I would have mixed those parts differently but I see where They where trying to go.

[Henchman]

There were so many parts where the music was too loud, and where the dialog levels were all over the place level wise.
Are you sure you were watching the same movie?

[AjanovicH]

As a composer, when I watch a movie for the first time, I watch it for the score. I love seeing/hearing what music does to a movie; whether it supports or destroys it.
I have to admit, this was one of those rare moments when I was truly annoyed by the score. I could look over the fact that it was a rather forgettable and uninspiring effort on Zimmer's part (as if he had two days to score the film, so he recycled the original theme in the crucial moments of the film, and for the rest, he just used the Drums of War / Stormdrum); however, I could not ignore how loud the score was in the mix... throughout the whole film! Even the "emotional" moments were drowned by ridiculously loud music track.

[chrisdee]

Originally Posted by BIGBANGBUZZ

Holywood seems to be about turning movies into music videos
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Maby they are inspired by Bollywood movies. They are all 2 hour musicvideos.

[brandoncross]

Originally Posted by Henchman

There were so many parts where the music was too loud, and where the dialog levels were all over the place level wise.
Are you sure you were watching the same movie?

I realize the dx mix was all over te place and a few times the m was pushed to loud to hear. I'm saying I know why the mx was pushed in tho areas. Not the best decision and if I where mixing it I wouldn't pushed thy far but I realize the intent. I just thought the dx mix wasn't to my taste. It had a really compressed sound I just couldn't get over.

[azs]

Overall dialog mix was too low. Bane was very hard to understand in certain sections.
I did not like the movie -the worst batman movie by far.

[Entrainer]

I saw it and thought the opening segment had Bane mixed WAY to loud.
He was much louder than the others and his voice never felt to be
originating from his character, unlike Darth Vader where I always felt
there was a connection to his position/place in the scene.

I bet these mixers/engineers got so many last minute fix requests
and conflicting orders due to the original bad-buzz from the preview.

[Sndnerd]

+1 just saw last night, glad it wasn't just me that thought there were major problems with this mix. Seemed like there was very little thought put into this. Aside from the Dx being buried, I also found the scenes where dialog was compressed to be quite noticeable. Maybe it's just me but the quiet scenes that had little to no compression felt like a breath of fresh air. I didn't mind Bane so much, perfectly acceptable to have a big LCR for him- but again the level jumps were distracting, in an ugly, ya we get it- he's the Bad Guy way.

[chrisdee]

Originally Posted by azs

I did not like the movie -the worst batman movie by far.

I have not seen the latest Batman movie, and I probably won't.
I was dissapointed with the last two movies.

Besides Im not especially found of superhero movies, but of the ones iv seen
i thought the first one with Michael Keaton was best.

[northamrec]

Originally Posted by chrisdee

I have not seen the latest Batman movie, and I probably won't.
I was dissapointed with the last two movies.

Besides Im not especially found of superhero movies, but of the ones iv seen
i thought the first one with Michael Keaton was best.

That's really interesting. The first two Batman movies with Michael Keaton were the best but I think that Christopher Nolan's movies are in another league.

I heard that when the first Bane scene was previewed before showings of the latest Mission Impossible, a lot of people complained about Bane's dialogue being too quiet and unintelligible. Maybe that explains something?

As someone who loves going to see movies (especially Batman movies), I really, really, really liked the score. I also thought the sections in 5/4 were really cool...that extra beat always gets me pumped up...

[BIGBANGBUZZ]

Originally Posted by Garret

Hunger games also sounded great.

most of the mix was a pass but another movie with an over the top score.
And it was a terrible movie.

But maybe that's why the trend of loud and over the top scores are used. To cover the bad acting and script.

Opinions are like noses everyone has them.


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[jipchen]

Not sure in which crappy cinemas you guys went, but I was easily able to understand the dialogues and I am not even a native speaker (saw the english version without subtitles). Though I must say the movie theater had great acoustics (most don't in my experience, for some ridiculous reason). Haven't heard anyone else complaining.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by northamrec

?

As someone who loves going to see movies (especially Batman movies), I really, really, really liked the score. I also thought the sections in 5/4 were really cool...that extra beat always gets me pumped up...

I never go to a film to listen to the score.
In fact, I also find most movies over scored.

[azs]

While I do like a good score this movie isn't one of them. Hans Zimmer has done better with other Batman movies. Outside of inconsistent and bad overall mix for the feature at least they could have done better with the score. The Dark Knight score was 10x better

[mattiasnyc]

Just got back from seeing it.

I definitely had problems with Bane's voice. For the most part it was clear which was surprising given what I read about it. But at least 4-5 times I missed what he said. I think a problem here is that some people in some theaters have no problem, but if I'm going to pay over $20 I NEED to be one of them. And that means playing it safe with dialog. And judging from what I've read and heard a lot of people had problems hearing what he said. I think that's unacceptable.

I also found the dialog to be a bit inconsistent level wise. Sometimes Bane was super loud. I'm guessing so that we could all hear what he had to say. And then at other times what other people said was way too low. It's like there was "dynamics" where none was needed but then they were lacking at other spots.

The music I simply thought was better in the previous one. Ditto on sound design.

And the film itself felt a bit... disjointed and not as "tight" as the previous film. A few instances of really poor extras too took me out of the film...

Overall not all that great unfortunately.

This was in IMAX Lincoln Square in Manhattan.

[feck]

Agreed, I thought the mix was lousy. Surprised they let that fly...I know its an action film, but when that much of the dialogue is unintelligible, its just unacceptable.

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[craigdouglas]

i usually blame the theater calibration..
the people that set it up a lot of times crank up the surrounds so high that the center gets ruined.. they think its more of a "wow" factor.. just stupid.. since most people really don't care... as long as the gun shots are loud and the LFE is pumping, they think people will buy tickets.. and they will..

[Joel C]

More specifically, I think they did something (boosted lows?) to the cellos that competed (maybe created phasing) problems with bane'e effected voice?

I just can't get used to that over bassy or 'phat' string section IMO. Doesn't sound right... Plus overused.

Much prefered avatar, transformers1 and prometheus mixes in that same theatre.

[JSt0rm]

I liked it. I even liked the choice of bane being in lcr. Only one scene was he unintelligible for me. I wish they would of backed off the low end a bit there.

Editorial wise the bike engine sounded weak to me. Never exciting. The bat sounded "good". My favorite sound scene was the first fight between bane and batman. No music and all the punches and whooshes were really well done.