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Henchman
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16th June 2012
Old 16th June 2012
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Getting rid of Waves

In my pursuit of better sounding dialog, and mixes in general, I decided to incorporate UAD plug-ins, since I already had UAD-1cards and plug-ins.
UA has a great trade in program right now, so I decided to jump on it, and ordered a UAD-2 Sattleite Quad.

Received the UAD satellite yesterday, and went in today, and started re-tooling my template, focussing on the dialog first. The install was painless.

On individual tracks I Replaced the Q10 with Equick, since I owned it already, set up with a hpf, LPF and 16 notch filters. Leaving Equality for correcting wider bands.
Added the SPL Voive of God plugin, which really is nice, and the SPL Transient designer to deal with verb on off mic dialog when needed. I had to keep the C4 as there is no real replacement for it just yet.

On the main dialog buss, I got rid of the waves de-Essers, and replaced them with the precision de-Esser. I use two, because, just like I did with the waves de-Esses, I have one set up to cut down the annoying midrange, to soften up the dialog. A one band multiband compressor if you like. And then one for regular de-essing. Followed by an LA-2A.

I had the center dialog track up, from a show I recently mixed. And imported the tracks from the original mix session, so I could A-B the two.
So far, I'm really happy. The dialog sounds much more open, and has more depth.
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16th June 2012
Old 16th June 2012
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How does the Precision De-Esser fair compred to the Renaissance DeEsser ? That's one of my correction tools I value greatly in dialogue mixing.

Interesting to use the SPL Transient Designer for expanding away some production sound reverb. I would have opted for the C4 maybe in combination with a DNS1 or WNS. The transient designer I hadn't even considered, and written it off as a music mixing tool.

Well, I'd certainly love to hear about the Precision De-Esser. The Oxford Suppressor would have been my first choice of new things to try.

And the SPL VoG plugin, does it simply control that 150-250 Hz mud ?

EQuick is my go-to as well by now. Had its problems but I wouldn't notch with anything else now. Chipped away plenty of resonances with that in the last months. EQIII has been sent down the river with concrete boots.
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16th June 2012
Old 16th June 2012
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Though I love my UAD plugins, I'm not planning to get rid of Waves anytime soon here. But if I were I'd be curious to know how the Precision Multiband compares with C4. PM isn't one of the UA plugins one hears much about. I've never even demo'd it. Anyone else?
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16th June 2012
Old 16th June 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airon View Post
How does the Precision De-Esser fair compred to the Renaissance DeEsser ? That's one of my correction tools I value greatly in dialogue mixing.

Interesting to use the SPL Transient Designer for expanding away some production sound reverb. I would have opted for the C4 maybe in combination with a DNS1 or WNS. The transient designer I hadn't even considered, and written it off as a music mixing tool.

Well, I'd certainly love to hear about the Precision De-Esser. The Oxford Suppressor would have been my first choice of new things to try.

And the SPL VoG plugin, does it simply control that 150-250 Hz mud ?

EQuick is my go-to as well by now. Had its problems but I wouldn't notch with anything else now. Chipped away plenty of resonances with that in the last months. EQIII has been sent down the river with concrete boots.
The precision de-Esser is much more versatile, and smoother IMO. It has a variable Q you can control, that goes from narrow up to a high pass. As well as an adjustable attack. Fast and slow.

The VOG is designed to give you some nice bottom resonance on dialog, without the mud.
The SPL transient designed, IMO works better, in most cases, than a combination often other tools. I also used a combo of C4 and DNS. But with the SPL, I have it n each dilag track, bypassed and already set to pretty much the setting that works. So it's a simple bypass click away from using if. So vey fast, and efficient. Without affecting the dialog too much.
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16th June 2012
Old 16th June 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmccoy View Post
Though I love my UAD plugins, I'm not planning to get rid of Waves anytime soon here. But if I were I'd be curious to know how the Precision Multiband compares with C4. PM isn't one of the UA plugins one hears much about. I've never even demo'd it. Anyone else?
I used to use the PMB a ton on vocals in music production. Fantastic for getting a nice full, smooth vocal track.
Problem with it is, that because of the up sampling it has a pretty hefty latency, which is Outside of the Pro-Tools maximum.
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16th June 2012
Old 16th June 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
The precision de-Esser is much more versatile, and smoother IMO. It has a variable Q you can control, that goes from narrow up to a high pass. As well as an adjustable attack. Fast and slow.
I agree with that completely. I do a lot of editing for a radio show (talking) as well as music and have found the Precision De-esser to be far superior to the Waves version. I really do like the UA stuff, it just sounds GOOD!
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16th June 2012
Old 16th June 2012
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Also, a nice thing about using the LA2A at he end of the DX chain, is I use it as a make-up gain, so I don't have to drive the signal path too much, too get it nice and hot on the output. So, now there so much less chance of channels overloading, and overloading of the CEDAR.
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16th June 2012
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Thanks for the info. Sounds like the UAD platform is very stable on PT 10 rigs.

I'll give the native version SPL TD a try, since I can't go for the UAD platform with the budget priorities right now. It's very good to know what uses in it there may be for me all the same.

The LA2A is an interesting choice. Apart from Waves RComp I haven't come up with a whole lot of good dia comps, and sadly also dismissed the LA2A as a unit used best in music mixing, which I sometimes engage in. I gotta try more stuff .

The Klanghelm DC8A is great, but no RTAS or AAX so far. Whenever I mix on a VST platform, I'll usually pick between the two.
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16th June 2012
Old 16th June 2012
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Wave arts multi dynamics is way better than the c4. Only rtas at this time tho.
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16th June 2012
Old 16th June 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandoncross View Post
Wave arts multi dynamics is way better than the c4. Only rtas at this time tho.
Rtas is fine.
I'll have to check it out.
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16th June 2012
Old 16th June 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airon View Post
How does the Precision De-Esser fair compred to the Renaissance DeEsser ? That's one of my correction tools I value greatly in dialogue mixing.
Talking about de-essing, I've been demoing the Brainworx | bx_dynEQ V2 for de-essing purposes on various material. It is extremely smooth, flexible and powerful and does much much more than just de-essing.

A bit expensive but... I think I'll have to buy it. Worth checking out!

Alistair
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16th June 2012
Old 16th June 2012
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Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
Talking about de-essing, I've been demoing the Brainworx | bx_dynEQ V2 for de-essing purposes on various material. It is extremely smooth, flexible and powerful and does much much more than just de-essing.

A bit expensive but... I think I'll have to buy it. Worth checking out!

Alistair
They have it for the UAD as well. But, as a De-Esser, I think I would rather have a plug-in that is just a de-Esser. Just like the VOG and the SPL transient designer, the precision de-esser is a one trick pony. But using one trick ponies, I find, allows you to work much faster. The parameter you are looking for is right there.
But that's just what works for me.
If one was wanting a de-Esser and an eq all in one, the brainworx is supposed to be amazing. A friend of mine has used it on music, and he raved about it.
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17th June 2012
Old 17th June 2012
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Have you tried the Massey Desser

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17th June 2012
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Originally Posted by BIGBANGBUZZ View Post
Have you tried the Massey Desser

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No. How is it?
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17th June 2012
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Just for the record, iZotope has a multiband compressor too, and I mostly just use two bands to tame the mids on TV shows when necessary.
OT: is anyone using multiband as an insert on dialog, or even instead of regular compressors? I haven't considered/tried that in a long time.....
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17th June 2012
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Interesting thread / but FYI the VOG is made by Little Labs NOT SPL… surprised multiple people in this thread have incorrectly credited it to SPL!
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17th June 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
No. How is it?
It's my fav, previously I used the waves dresser a C1 sidechain or the digi.

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17th June 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danijel View Post
OT: is anyone using multiband as an insert on dialog, or even instead of regular compressors? I haven't considered/tried that in a long time.....
Only for noise reduction here - not for any kind of sound shaping/levelling.
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17th June 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danijel View Post
is anyone using multiband as an insert on dialog, or even instead of regular compressors?
Some deessers are made as multiband compressors (2 or 3 bands).
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17th June 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexey Lukin View Post
Some deessers are made as multiband compressors (2 or 3 bands).
That makes sense, since esses all all over the spectrum.....
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17th June 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGBANGBUZZ View Post
It's my fav, previously I used the waves dresser a C1 sidechain or the digi.

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Me too. Massey makes great plug ins.
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17th June 2012
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I use a DSM on my dialog buss, which I guess you could call multiband. However I do keep it "light". I prefer CT4 or Rcomp to do the heavy lifting.

The UAD system sounds great, however I'm constantly working in different rooms and lugging the thing around doesn't sound too appealing.
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17th June 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RecRoom View Post

The UAD system sounds great, however I'm constantly working in different rooms and lugging the thing around doesn't sound too appealing.
Actually, the sattelite is small. Thats why i decided to get it.
It sits perfectly in the slot at the top of a Macpro.
And it takes about 5 minutes to install.

I was surprised at how easy the setup was.
So it beats installing a bunch of different plug-ins if you want to deviate frame the typical plugins most studios have.
That's why I'm trying to stick with mostly uad, and one or two other non-standard plugins. But that's it.
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17th June 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandoncross View Post
Wave arts multi dynamics is way better than the c4. Only rtas at this time tho.
I tested this one on a bunch of field recordings a few years ago. Very clean, and very easy to use after a few minutes. Might go and give it a spin again. The Wavearts stuff was clean and a pleasure to operate.
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17th June 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danijel View Post
Just for the record, iZotope has a multiband compressor too, and I mostly just use two bands to tame the mids on TV shows when necessary.
OT: is anyone using multiband as an insert on dialog, or even instead of regular compressors? I haven't considered/tried that in a long time.....
So far I discarded multibands for overall voice compression, because it just takes too long to setup. For very quick mixes I might slap it in to the dia bus, but it's usually a denoiser-type of thing, or catching irritating non-narrow stuff.

Still using my RComp in opto mode for compression.

For deessers it heavily depends on the material. I'm currently mixing a Youtube show (TF2 Top10 Plays of the month) in my spare time, and the VO performer has his annoying stuff at 8-12k, which is a first for me. I had to resort to pre-eq, two deessers before a comp. Part of this is due to his mic (USB Snowball), and his voice does the rest.

The Brainworx dynamic EQ sounds interesting. The Sonnox Suppressor is actually a dynamic EQ as well but with some specialized controls geared towards de-essing quickly. The fun with the Suppresor comes with the enormous range it can cover, so it may be the one-plugin fix for stuff like a VO performer mentioned above.
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17th June 2012
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1 vote for Wavearts MD as noise reduction tool--poor man's DNS 1000 etc. I use it with a little bit of regular compression on DX. MD isn't a bad de-esser either. Spitfish works well and is cheap. The only Waves thing I really haven't been able to find an exact sub for is RenBass (not MaxxBass), although BV2 is close.

phil p
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17th June 2012
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The only Waves thing I really haven't been able to find an exact sub for is RenBass (not MaxxBass), although BV2 is close.

phil p
Check out lowender.
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17th June 2012
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Lowender is great, but does not do at all the same ting as RenBass.
RenBass and MaxBass both work increasing percieved bottom end by adding higher frequency content to the lowest frequencies.
Lowender synthesises additional material below the original lowest frequency.
The waves version of lowender is loair.
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17th June 2012
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See, it's all taste isn't it. Renbass and Maxbass never did it for me.
I use lowender on a send that just goes to the sub.
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17th June 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
See, it's all taste isn't it. Renbass and Maxbass never did it for me.
I use lowender on a send that just goes to the sub.
Me too for Lowender--works great for LFE. I don't use RenBass that way at all.
I mostly use it to beef up library music (that wasn't composed with dialog in mind) that has to play under dialog without wimping out--works really well for that.

phil p
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