Dlby Atmos Announced - The future of cinema audio?

[tom_lowe]

Originally Posted by cjguitar

The last feature I worked on had 200+ Gigs of deliverables, both an unrated and PG-13 theatrical + M&E's for both, the list goes on and on. Now imagine throwing in other sets deliverables for Dolby Atmos, Imm Sound, Auro 3D, Iosono, etc. because the 7.1, 5.1, LtRt's, multiple stems, home theater mixes and so on aren't going away any time soon. I can't even imagine how many extra days and Gigabytes of deliverables we'll need that we can't charge for…

Other than that, I think it looks great!

I'm sure you already know this, but IMM was acquired by Dolby, so that's already one less. The great thing with ATMOS is once you mix in that, any other mixes (7.1, 5.1, Lt/Rt, stereo etc.) are all generated automatically from the ATMOS mix.
I'm assuming (I could well be wrong) that the stems can also be easily generated too, from the way the ATMOS master is created. Potentially any Dialogue objects could be used to create that stem, FX objects could do the same and so on..... that is, of course, assuming you can label objects accordingly.

[Henchman]

I'm glad I am primarily a dialog mixer. So the majority of what I have to deal with happens in the LCR.

[soundboy]

This is going to depend a lot on the economics of getting these systems into the theaters. Right now, the studios are having a hard enough time getting butts in the seats. That's why the push for 3D. To offer what a 50" LED and a nice surround system cant really provide. If the Atmos system can add value to the experience that translates to better attendance, then the theater owners will go for it. However, the films that are having the toughest time, are the mid budget features that wouldn't benefit from this system. The big tent pole pix are already filling seats without it. Where is the value, other than pushing the art and technology forward for it's own sake. This may be great for Asia. Apparently the theater business is doing very well there.

[Vytis]

Shaun at Designing Sound has posted a review of Dolby Atmos.

My Impressions of Dolby Atmos

Would be interesting to hear what those who've heard or mixed for that format think of the points he's made.

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by soundboy

This is going to depend a lot on the economics of getting these systems into the theaters. Right now, the studios are having a hard enough time getting butts in the seats. That's why the push for 3D. To offer what a 50" LED and a nice surround system cant really provide...

That's why I think they really need to go way big.

[by-tor]

Originally Posted by Vytis

Shaun at Designing Sound has posted a review of Dolby Atmos.

My Impressions of Dolby Atmos

Would be interesting to hear what those who've heard or mixed for that format think of the points he's made.

One thing about the demo he heard...With the exception of the music stuff...those Atmos mixes were most likely done from stems. Not from the start. I am curious to hear is what a mixer does when the pre-mixes are done in Atmos as well.

[Henchman]

I do know that more than ever, mixing virtual will allow adapting your existing mix much easier and better to Atmos and other systems like it.
As you are not using your stems, but original elements.

[paulo m]

Since uncompressed files became the norm for DCP, Dolby was out of the cinema sound equation for a while, so they had to invent something to keep on top of the wave. I don´t say this in a nasty way, as I think Dolby has a positive contribution for cinema sound all over the years.

Atmos seems like an interesting technology, but is unfortunetely out of reach to a great number of facilities, let alone cinemas.
I would rather prefer to have cinemas complying to existing specs and good sound practices, which most don´t, than to have a new format. In particular one that uses massive number of speakers.
I would rather see technology go minimal in terms of reproduction physics and invest more in psycho acoustics that could provide a sense of sound immersion from a few number of speakers.

I can hardly wait for a Dolby Atmos enabled smartphone or tablet...

[jozzafunk]

Originally Posted by Brent_in_Sydney

Anyone had any experience with atmos yet? Any word on Dolby's plans for an atmos panner outside of protools? ie to mix an Atmos mix using a neve/harrison/system 5 etc?

I'll let you know in a couple of weeks - going to watch first film mixed this way down this way.

[DEAN HUMPHREYS]

When Dolby 5.1 was introduced 20 years ago it was a relatively easy task to have it accepted by the movie industry. Studios and cinemas were already equipped with the same technology that had been used to create and replay Lt/Rt sound tracks. The mixing techniques were fundamentally the same. The additional cost to move to 5.1 was minimal. The audio quality was a quantum leap forward from the bandwidth restricted analogue matrixed sound we'd become accustomed to over the previous 15 years.

The issues regarding the introduction of Atmos, Auro, etc are more complex and confusing, and therefore less likely to become accepted as quickly as 5.1 was.

I was in a studio recently with a director, producer, studio owner and a UK Dolby engineer. The Dolby engineer took the opportunity, with the captive audience, to herald the arrival of Atmos. The producer asked, unsurprisingly, how much more time it would take to mix in Atmos and the cost of the licence. The studio owner asked what the cost implications for speakers and amps were. The director asked if it helped to do a movie in Atmos if it was 'just' a dialogue movie. He couldn't answer any of the questions. This left everyone bemused and clearly more sceptical about using this new wonder format in the future. Whilst these people alone are not single-handedly going to stop the momentum, or otherwise, of Atmos they are clearly indicative of some genuine concerns about what the benefits are.

That the bigger financed movies will use these new formats is unquestionable but the question might be "Is it imperative"?

[charles maynes]

Having heard a brief demo of the Auro system at the Dub Stage, I have to say this- it did sound very nice, as does ATMOS, but the question that remains is if the general population of Theaters will install the systems- in many ways this is very much like the DTS/SDDS/Dolby Digital war in the last decade-

we certainly have a great win with uncompressed 48k 5.1 presently- But I am almost thinking a dual or perhaps 3 way 5.1 system where the DX/MX/FX can all have their own speakers might bring a great deal better fidelity with a much more streamlined delivery- (since those stems are already done).

just an idea....

[ErikG]

No Need for that Charles.
Let's just equip each chair with a mentometer so that the audience can all vote on dialogue fx and music levels creating a collective audience mix.
Wouldn't that be great?

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by ErikG

No Need for that Charles.
Let's just equip each chair with a mentometer so that the audience can all vote on dialogue fx and music levels creating a collective audience mix.
Wouldn't that be great?

I dont think the mix should be adjustable- just that the stems should get their own speakers.

It does sound significantly better-

[ckreon]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

I dont think the mix should be adjustable- just that the stems should get their own speakers.

It does sound significantly better-

There is improvement in clarity, no doubt, but I can't think of a single justifiable reason to actually do this. Of course, there is always the "because I can" card

[pethenis]

Maybe Dolby should come up with a theater surround headset that blows away anything you've ever heard. Subwoofers in the seats for the "in your chest" bits and a volume control on your armrest. At least we don't have to worry about playback levels anymore and if people don't mind wearing funny glasses to see 3D picture, they shouldn't mind wearing a headset either...

[apple-q]

Originally Posted by pethenis

Maybe Dolby should come up with a theater surround headset that blows away anything you've ever heard. Subwoofers in the seats for the "in your chest" bits and a volume control on your armrest. At least we don't have to worry about playback levels anymore and if people don't mind wearing funny glasses to see 3D picture, they shouldn't mind wearing a headset either...

The next generation of movie audience will be wearing hearing aids from age 20 anyway (due to iPods etc.) so they could as well invent a direct-to-hearing-aid-connector in every seat.

[thermisonic]

Originally Posted by apple-q

The next generation of movie audience will be wearing hearing aids from age 20 anyway (due to iPods etc.) so they could as well invent a direct-to-hearing-aid-connector in every seat.

are ipods really different to walkmans? I haven't gone deaf yet and have used both since the late 1980s...

Rob Walker AMPS

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by ckreon

There is improvement in clarity, no doubt, but I can't think of a single justifiable reason to actually do this. Of course, there is always the "because I can" card

the main benefit is the absence of intermodulation distortion- That was one of the principal benefits of SDDS- which the film U571 took advantage of- Jon Johnson, Gregg Landaker and Steve Maslow set up the mix for that so that Music and FX went to their own speakers (MX to outside L/R, FX inside L/R) and the result was amazing. In louder shows the independence of the volume makes for a significantly better sounding experience.

[dr.sound]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

Having heard a brief demo of the Auro system at the Dub Stage, I have to say this- it did sound very nice, as does ATMOS, but the question that remains is if the general population of Theaters will install the systems- in many ways this is very much like the DTS/SDDS/Dolby Digital war in the last decade-

Thanks for stopping by Charles to hear what we are doing in "Auro-3D" at "The Dub Stage"!
I wouldn't call it a "Digital War". I think both Auro and Atmos can co exist.
I believe it's best for the marketplace. It's healthy to have competition with 2 major players. It requires both Dolby and Barco to each raise the bar. While I don't believe EVERY movie requires these formats I do believe most can benefit. Every person who has heard these demos appreciates the difference in these formats vs. standard 5.1.

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by dr.sound

Thanks for stopping by Charles to hear what we are doing in "Auro-3D" at "The Dub Stage"!
I wouldn't call it a "Digital War". I think both Auro and Atmos can co exist.
I believe it's best for the marketplace. It's healthy to have competition with 2 major players. It requires both Dolby and Barco to each raise the bar. While I don't believe EVERY movie requires these formats I do believe most can benefit. Every person who has heard these demos appreciates the difference in these formats vs. standard 5.1.

hey Marti- the system sounded great- but i dont even think we are a good ways to any sort of "war" between the two- I was speaking more to the confusion of the DTS/SDDS/DD period....

the concern I would voice is that these immersive systems are sort of like a sonic equivalent to IMAX- and there- the issue would be a question as to if theater goers are willing to pay more for an enhanced sound experience. I would think that the jury is certainly still undecided there....

[Kuba_Pietrzak]

This is exactly, what I wanted to say (an IMAX comparison) about those new systems of theatrical audio.

It is possible, that perhaps (at least at the begining) there will be 1 or a couple of rooms in larger cities to provide "an extraordinary sonic experience", but for most people cinema I know, audio is just "dolby surround" - people just know, that in the theater there is a "big sound" and there are "speakers around the audience", but 5.1, 7.1, whatever is "terra incognita", so it is more up to theater owners, who may decide (or not) to invest money into new technology.

As many of us remember, a jump from matrixed LCRS to discrete 5.1 was a HUGE step, in terms of sound quality, clarity and overall experience.

I really wonder, what happens when you compare 7.1 to any of new systems.

I hope, such a comparison is similar to LCRS vs DD.

best,
Kuba

[insomaniac]

Originally Posted by dr.sound

I wouldn't call it a "Digital War". I think both Auro and Atmos can co exist.
I believe it's best for the marketplace. It's healthy to have competition with 2 major players. It requires both Dolby and Barco to each raise the bar. While I don't believe EVERY movie requires these formats I do believe most can benefit. Every person who has heard these demos appreciates the difference in these formats vs. standard 5.1.

Agreed, I think having some sort of competition will only make things better. Now having heard both (thanks for the demo, Marti!), I really feel like they both bring a whole new level of depth and dynamics to film sound, and maybe even a little more clarity thanks to the separation. Even my non-sound friends who have heard Atmos noticed a difference, which was unexpected.

I really hope more theaters pick up on these systems, but for that to happen, there need to be more movies mixed for them, but to do that....

[DEAN HUMPHREYS]

When I was in Barcelona earlier this year to listen to imm (in anticipation of us doing 'Taken 2' in that format) the cinema owner explained that the screen that showed the imm version of a movie, as opposed to the 5.1 version, was able to charge $2 more and that it was always full. This statement might have been a little disingenuous (bearing in mind the imm people were standing alongside us!) but it was clear that the interest generated in a new sound format was/will be sufficient enough to get audiences to come in, listen to it and pay more. If the delineation between listening to the Atmos/Auro/etc version as opposed to the 5.1 version is marked by an increase in ticket price of, say, $2, will the cinema owners/studios/producers be able to justify the extra financial outlay (mixing time, speakers/amps) knowing that they are assured of making their extra investment back?

Possibly there won't be an increase in ticket price because the cinemas will absorb the cost of installing new equipment, but one suspects that they will have to charge more.

Having spoken to some of the cinemas here in the UK there is a degree of caution due, in part, to what Charles mentioned in an earlier post about the different formats that are out there at the moment. The Odeon is installing Atmos in some cinemas, as an understandable toe in the water, but their willingness to embrace it fully is clearly not as wholehearted as the move to 5.1 was from Lt/Rt.