NatGeo Surround Mixing Panning Spec

[pethenis]

Agree on the poo-factor :-) had a short discussion about it with one of the QC guys and they also agree... But for the sake of convenience they (NGC in house mixers) go as far as to pan all the production sound to LR if there's no spoken word in it; narration comes in, general production sound goes to LR, narration stops: general production sound to C again... Talk about the mix feeling a bit disconnected!

Originally Posted by stangroom

Hey Slutz - so I've mixed a number of shows for National Geographic over the past few years, and even recently in the last year, but am currently working on a show that is finally venturing away from the reality-based type programming to a much more SFX oriented historical show.

I got kicked back a few years ago on QC for having SFX in the center channel, so since then I've really stuck to the "any-SFX-go-LR" rule. But as I stated, it's mostly been reality and some stings and whooshes and whatnot. In the current show there's a bunch more archival footage that we're essentially re-creating the soundtrack for.

Has anyone else had an experience like this with NatGeo, and are they dead set on only Dia and VO in the center channel? I know it's for re-versioning, but it's a pain the A, and makes for a really poop-sounding mix...

[Frank S.]

Yes, they stick to that rule every time. Most of my work is for Nat Geo and it does suck. I argued about this a few years ago and was basically told "yeah...I know. I wish it wasn't like this, but it is."

Here's what you can get away with in the center:

VO/Narration
Translations
Dialogue (Interviews, on screen DX that "moves the story forward")
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Any production dialogue that is in the background, etc. must go L/R. All SFX must go L/R or Ls/Rs.

To make matters worse, they will sometimes flag you for using your LFE if it's your music track going to the sub. And, if there is ambient sound in the dialogue in the center they may flag that too.

You're supposed to be able to put sync sound in the center, but it's flagged so often that I avoid it. No sense in having to argue every single mix.
-----------------

Side note: do you have their latest specs? I think they came out end of October or early November of 2011. The audio specs changed, so be sure you have them. Peaks are now much higher on surround mixes. (Still -10 on stereo)

Also, just so you know...even though the specs for the surround audio say -2, they limit it at -6. Knowing that, I limit mine to -6.

[stangroom]

Frank, thanks so much for your response. Yeah, I do have their new specs and knowing the -6 limit is EXTREMELY helpful. I was going off of -2, but I'll drop to -6 just to be safe. There are some big explosions and what not in this show, so I don't want to overload everything if it's going to get limited down there.

I had the exact same problem as you with the C vs LR issue on sync sound, but I do the same and don't even bother putting it in the Center anymore. I think I was just hoping someone would have slapped some sense into them since the last time I talked to them.

Thanks again!

[Frank S.]

No problem. Maybe if everyone ganged up on them together they would change...hahaha...doubt it.

[RecRoom]

Quick Question: Do you guys fold down your stereo MDE mix from the 5.1 MDE or create it yourself using the stems? If so, what are you using for the fold down?

[smithy2617]

Hey.

Personally we are using SoundCode to fold down.
SoundCode LtRt Tools Features

[Frank S.]

I always fold down. No time for an entire new mix for MDE. I will do a pass through to make sure it is "undipped" where required.

[soundboy]

It's funny, Nat Geo is a major lesson in how this is a service industry. The client want's the mix done in a way that is not conducive to what we would normally consider "good". That's what you have to give them. It's their project to screw up. At that point, we just bring our expertise to bear on what we are allowed to do. And if you think the TV watching audience notices........ I bet Nat Geo only gets complaints from mixers.

[RecRoom]

Originally Posted by soundboy

It's funny, Nat Geo is a major lesson in how this is a service industry. The client want's the mix done in a way that is not conducive to what we would normally consider "good". That's what you have to give them. It's their project to screw up. At that point, we just bring our expertise to bear on what we are allowed to do. And if you think the TV watching audience notices........ I bet Nat Geo only gets complaints from mixers.

Yeah, I'm starting a show for them next week and am trying to wrap my head around their specs.

[Frank S.]

I've been mixing NatGeo shows since the beginning of the network. It's always been a struggle to get them to change their specs to something reasonable. What you have now is a million times better than what it was just two years ago.