Does this surround plugin exist?

[cebolao]

It is difficult to pan surround tracks in protools. They are hard wired to bus outputs with no possibility to change anything.
What i need is a simple plugin that at least lets me control the volume of all the channels on multichannel track. I know i can always use trim plugin in multimono mode, but this is not an elegant solution. I cant see all the volumes at once, and it's difficult to switch between channels.

The perfect plugin would allow me to pan the channels on a multichannel track, for example move the L channel to center.

It should be easy to do. Does such a plugin exist?

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Gearslutz.com

[cebolao]

of course there is the waves 360 bundle with surround panner, but it costs 900$ which is quite a lot for this simple task and i don't need the other stuff from this bundle.

and actually i'm not sure if it can do what i need to do.

[JSt0rm]

the only way is to blow out the surround track into 5 or 6 mono tracks and feed them into another surround track OR a surround aux. This is how I would work.

Work with your chosen multichannel plug in and get the sound close to what you want. Print it. Blow that out into multimono tracks and feed an aux bus and adjust your pans.

unfortunately panman by sound toys is only stereo. The above seems cluggy but really its the best way.

[huub]

I use a Lawo console, which is completely flexible when it comes to surround anyway, but it has this thing called hyperpanning, which is available as a plug in.
No idea what the price is..

Hyperpanning

[apple-q]

Originally Posted by cebolao

It is difficult to pan surround tracks in protools. They are hard wired to bus outputs with no possibility to change anything.
What i need is a simple plugin that at least lets me control the volume of all the channels on multichannel track. I know i can always use trim plugin in multimono mode, but this is not an elegant solution. I cant see all the volumes at once, and it's difficult to switch between channels.

Easiest way is to split the 5.1 track to mono. What you´re trying to do is essentially mix 6 channels to a 5.1 sum.

[muziekschuur]

I use Cakewalk Sonar X1 PE. This can use a simple joystick for panning. It allso has stereo in surround. So if you have a great sounding leadvocal in M-S on a stereo track, you can now pan it in surround...

If you want, I can do the mix for you.... Just let me know.

[apple-q]

Originally Posted by muziekschuur

I use Cakewalk Sonar X1 PE. This can use a simple joystick for panning. It allso has stereo in surround. So if you have a great sounding leadvocal in M-S on a stereo track, you can now pan it in surround...

If you want, I can do the mix for you.... Just let me know.

PT has that too but he´s asking for a mixer within the mixer in a way where you have individual channel controls when sending a 5.1 track to a 5.1 out as far as I got it.

Not sure what that could be good for...

[FullFrequency]

Originally Posted by apple-q

Easiest way is to split the 5.1 track to mono. What you´re trying to do is essentially mix 6 channels to a 5.1 sum.

+1 - 6 mono channels into a 5.1 aux. Pan and level each channel as you'd like. Group the 6 channels together for editing and it'll feel like one. That'll be way more powerful and more hands on than any plugin could ever be anyway!

[ErikG]

In Nuendo we can re-pan a 5.1 stem quite easily. but rebalancing requires it to be split/sent to multiple mono channels or using a plugin like the built in "mixer delay", it has fader/mute/solo and delay on each channel.

[danijel]

There are the free AcousModules VST plugins that can do just that, so maybe you could run them via RTAS adapter if that thing works anyway. But, I too consider that probably unnecessary, except for some very special application.

[cebolao]

Originally Posted by apple-q

Not sure what that could be good for...

imagine a 5-channel SFX of train on station. the train starts, leaves the screen, going for example to the right.

i can follow the train with my SFX, panning the 5-channel track. or just attenuating the rears and front left channel.

[cebolao]

Originally Posted by ErikG

using a plugin like the built in "mixer delay", it has fader/mute/solo and delay on each channel.

that's exactly what i need in protools. a simple plugin, let's forget about panning, just level and mute of each channel.

[cjguitar]

I don't have an answer for you , but this is really something that should be built into Pro Tools. We should rally to get Avid to build multi-channel tracks that have pan/volume & waveform editing on individual channels.

[apple-q]

Originally Posted by cebolao

imagine a 5-channel SFX of train on station. the train starts, leaves the screen, going for example to the right.

i can follow the train with my SFX, panning the 5-channel track. or just attenuating the rears and front left channel.

Wouldn't you have panned the single elements in that 5.0 track to picture in the first place? Why would want to pan an entire 5.0 mix to the right?

What you´re asking for is essentially having another 5-in-5-mixer as a plugin. Like a DAW inside a DAW.

If you pan a quad recording from C to R you are essential mixing it down to mono and panning it from C to R.

[cebolao]

Originally Posted by apple-q

Wouldn't you have panned the single elements in that 5.0 track to picture in the first place? Why would want to pan an entire 5.0 mix to the right?

What you´re asking for is essentially having another 5-in-5-mixer as a plugin. Like a DAW inside a DAW.

If you pan a quad recording from C to R you are essential mixing it down to mono and panning it from C to R.

it's not the 5.1 mix, it's the multichannel SFX that i would like to pan

[cebolao]

Originally Posted by cjguitar

I don't have an answer for you , but this is really something that should be built into Pro Tools. We should rally to get Avid to build multi-channel tracks that have pan/volume & waveform editing on individual channels.

[apple-q]

Originally Posted by cebolao

it's not the 5.1 mix, it's the multichannel SFX that i would like to pan

I understand that but what do you call a multichannel SFX? Isn´t that made from multiple mono and stereo elements that you could have panned to that train in the first place?
Meaning: Why pan an entire complex stem when you can pan the single elements in the first place?

Technically there is no difference between panning 5 mono tracks to a 5.0 sum to that plugin that you suggest.

Or am I missing something?

[ErikG]

Lots Of good reasons to.
During the design stage you create a selement that is multichannel that needs to be panned according to the picture (think late arriving cgi) with Nuendo panning a multichannel sound the focus sound (that might be panned center normally) will now rotate with all the belonging side elements rotating along with it. Works awesome for POV style scenes.
Other times re-panning a music stem is also dead simple. No need to split to mono.

[Seabornstudio]

I think you are looking for waves S360 imager

If you got a track in 5.1
Use that plugin as a panner and a distance from speaker with width adjustment
So you can control amount in %center
rotation
Distance
Width
And Er reflection

[huub]

"Lots Of good reasons to.
During the design stage you create a selement that is multichannel that needs to be panned according to the picture (think late arriving cgi) with Nuendo panning a multichannel sound the focus sound (that might be panned center normally) will now rotate with all the belonging side elements rotating along with it. Works awesome for POV style scenes.
Other times re-panning a music stem is also dead simple. No need to split to mono."


The aforementioned Lawo plug in also does exactly that.

[cebolao]

Originally Posted by apple-q

I understand that but what do you call a multichannel SFX? Isn´t that made from multiple mono and stereo elements that you could have panned to that train in the first place?
Meaning: Why pan an entire complex stem when you can pan the single elements in the first place?

Technically there is no difference between panning 5 mono tracks to a 5.0 sum to that plugin that you suggest.

Or am I missing something?

it's really a 5 channel SFX, recorded with double MS microphone and decoded to LCRLsRs. as long as the train is in picture it sounds great (even with the rears), but when it leaves the screen i'd like to have a simple method of panning it.

[DigitalBrownNote]

so you mean the train was not on a specific channel? and there was bleed into the other mics because it was tracked as double m/s? It seems like that movement should have been tracked naturally? or maybe im confused.

[Garret]

Another good example of why it would be useful is if you have 5.0 recorded ambiences. You have no easy way of changing the balance between channels without splitting to mono at the moment so I avoid them usually.

[cebolao]

The train was just an example. Another example is the 5 channels atmos. I might want to pan them differently.

So far the conclusion is there is no elegant way of doing it in protools?

The non elegant ways are splitting to mono tracks or putting a multimono trim plugin.


Sent from my GT-I9100 using Gearslutz.com

[JSt0rm]

when I work with quads I just put them on 2 stereo tracks and feed a 5.1 aux. I would do the same with a 5 channel recording but add a mono track to that. Its not really a thought.

[cebolao]

I think it's the best solution so far. 3 tracks, better than 5. Still not perfect, but ok.

So it would be mono track for C, stereo for LR and another stereo for LsRs. All editgrouped.

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[Rick Sanchez]

I almost always use a mono track when I'm panning through a 5.0 space (the LFE does not pan, so I'll leave that out of the equation.

If you want to do something really creative, take the mono source, do your perspective panning, to a 5.1 aux then route the LCR Ls Rs to individual auxes each with a separate reverb on it. Adjust the reverb to give you dimension and as you pan around, the changes in reverb perspective will change. Reverbs can be mono, stereo or 5.1 but with different characteristics.

If there is an open field on the left, it would have significantly different characteristics than the brick buildings on the right.

Takes a while to set up, but can be very effective.

[cebolao]

wow. interesting idea. have to try that.