Source Connect alternatives?

[D'Animation]

Hi,

Just wondering if there is a better alternative to Source Connect for online mix approvals with video? Clients watch video and listen to my mix, I control their timeline (which just has the video track, no recording needed). We're having a few issues lately so want to see what's around.

I'm not very very sure about things in this area but looking at an ISDN based solution like Zepher, it makes no mention of video sync? If anyone could point me in the right direction its much appreciated!
Thanks

[Kuba_Pietrzak]

I have absolutely no experience with ISDN, but I would imagine, that as such a line can transmit audio, why not using another line and send time-code signal (SMPTE, commonly called "the cricket"), so you're sending a mix along with time-code to which client system locks and plays the video...

This would an elegant solution, but unfortunately the client needs to have some king of syncing device and the software, which is capable to lock to this.

Best,
Kuba

[RecRoom]

In my experience Telos Zypher is great for VO sessions with talent but not very useful when trying to lock up 2 systems via TC. It's been awhile since I've used it, but I believe you're only able to have 2 channels going each way, which would work if you're cool with having clients approve your mix in mono. APTs Milano box is capable of doing stereo with a TC channel, but requires 6 ISDN lines as opposed to 2 with the Zypher, which might make it cost prohibitive compared to Source Connect. I have heard of people using skype for client approvals, but I've personally never attempted to use it in that way.

[D'Animation]

Thanks for the input lads

Originally Posted by RecRoom

In my experience Telos Zypher is great for VO sessions with talent but not very useful when trying to lock up 2 systems via TC. It's been awhile since I've used it, but I believe you're only able to have 2 channels going each way, which would work if you're cool with having clients approve your mix in mono. APTs Milano box is capable of doing stereo with a TC channel, but requires 6 ISDN lines as opposed to 2 with the Zypher, which might make it cost prohibitive compared to Source Connect. I have heard of people using skype for client approvals, but I've personally never attempted to use it in that way.

Yes, I've only heard of the Telos system being mentioned around voice sessions, not mix approvals and mono won't work (we're currently downmixing the 5.1 to LtRt as it is). I'll take a look at the Milano box anyway.
Cheers

[zmod]

I've done adr sessions where I sent voice on one track and timecode on the other for picture lock and it worked great. I was using a Prima 220 but you would be able to do it with a Zephyr box. To send a stereo mix plus timecode you would need to add another two isdn lines and a second card to your box. As long as your clients have a compatible Isdn setup it should work great.

Sent from my HTC Glacier using Gearslutz.com

[Jfriah]

I've used ISDN, Source Connect, Skype. Now being asked to look into 'CineSync'. So far, it has depended on what the CLIENT or post sup wants to use and we have to find a way to deliver. Not my choices, usually...

So far, ISDN is the best. And, geez, gosh darn, it costs! Clients don't understand that part of it. It's up to us to make it quite clear that you get what you pay for. I've got more experience using Skype recently for obvious reasons... And what I've done lately is simply point the camera at the playback screen in my room.

I've piped audio into the computer line-in but it really is trial and error for setting level, etc. and...well...don't count on SYNC, OR it being in stereo


Jeff

[Garret]

I've used the Apt Milano box very successfully to review stereo mixes from Ireland to L.A on two 26 part shows. It was always very solid and once we worked out the delay for sync everything worked very smoothly. Six Isdn lines though so might be expensive for a 5.1 review. Time code gets fed on a separate input to the box.

[Mundox]

Best choice is ISDN. You can probably send your mix file via FTP for the receiving end to marry to the picture and just send your SMPTE and talkback down the line. (this of course stops you from making changes to the mix and playing them back on the spot.)

The other option is SKYPE. We have done some narration sessions where we fed the composite video out of the internal Blackmagic card and fed that to a firewire DV box which fed the pictures to SKYPE. It's not frame accurate but not too bad sync. The good thing is, client can do it from home/office and they don't have to go to a studio.

[bob66it]

Another way is to stream audio and video with Evolv. In this way you can also stream over html5 and your client can use QuickTime to see and listen your mix. He can also use safari and iPhone

[Jfriah]

Originally Posted by Mundox

Best choice is ISDN. You can probably send your mix file via FTP for the receiving end to marry to the picture and just send your SMPTE and talkback down the line. (this of course stops you from making changes to the mix and playing them back on the spot.)

The other option is SKYPE. We have done some narration sessions where we fed the composite video out of the internal Blackmagic card and fed that to a firewire DV box which fed the pictures to SKYPE. It's not frame accurate but not too bad sync. The good thing is, client can do it from home/office and they don't have to go to a studio.

Nice tip on sending the mix files in advance IF THERE IS TIME...(chuckle) and then just chasing.

Skype---Hmm. Have to investigate---HOW are you putting video INTO skype? Geez, I thought it was camera-only; but I suppose it would allow 'external camera' since many people have those (my brain set is 'laptop' for Skype, which of course has built in camera).

Yes, I do see there is a pull-down menu for 'camera'; I just don't have an external source right now.

What format/resolution are you finding works for that? Some h264? Sending video would bog things down.

Jeff

[Jfriah]

Originally Posted by bob66it

Another way is to stream audio and video with Evolv. In this way you can also stream over html5 and your client can use QuickTime to see and listen your mix. He can also use safari and iPhone

Evolv---you have to pre-chew / create a finished Quicktime of the mix, yes? (time factor)

Hmm.

"In addition to the built-in camera and audio inputs on your Mac, you can also use most Mac OS X compatible cameras, microphones, and audio/video input devices."


Will be trying this this afternoon!

Jeff

[Jfriah]

Hmm. EvoLV is a big FAIL right now.

No user manual/instructions and my intuitively-guided 'inserting a video into a frame on the screen' came up as nothing but a single still image on the other side.

Skype/Google Video/uStream it is, still!

[bob66it]

I use Evolv in Another computer with a DV firewire box.
I sent to it the audio and video from the computer running protools, and Evolv stream in real time the movie.
The only problem is that there is a delay of about 5 seconds between the protools and the client movie

[bob66it]

You have to setup your router in order to make it works
I think this is a cheap way to send my work fast and easy to the client.
He can use safari or QuickTime, just click on the link i send him.
I can make chenges in my mix with the client even if he is not with me,
Of course ISDN is better.
Sorry for my english

[Jfriah]

Originally Posted by bob66it

The only problem is that there is a delay of about 5 seconds between the protools and the client movie

Your English is quite good; however to clarify:
delay of about 5 seconds between protools and the client movie... I HOPE you're meaning there's about 5 seconds delay between what you're seeing/listening to and what the client is seeing/listening to

NOT

that there is a 5 second delay between pro tools audio and the movie... that would be, well, bad.

Jeff

[Mundox]

Originally Posted by Jfriah

HOW are you putting video INTO skype? Geez, I thought it was camera-only; but I suppose it would allow 'external camera' since many people have those (my brain set is 'laptop' for Skype, which of course has built in camera).

Yes, I do see there is a pull-down menu for 'camera'; I just don't have an external source right now.

What format/resolution are you finding works for that? Some h264? Sending video would bog things down.

Jeff

SKYPE sees the firewire DV box as an input. Video is fed to the DV box from Blackmagic (outside the box, via composite out). So the video is going down through FW as DV.

[D'Animation]

Thanks everyone, some good alternatives and workarounds