Roland R-26 Portable Recorder

[JSt0rm]

rock the nt4 off 9volt. It actually doesnt sound bad like that.

[ErikG]

I've got it.
It sounds quite good. At least as good as any other handheld. Not quite as low noise as a SD unit but not far off.
But it does have a few user quirks.
You can monitor mono if recording only one channel via xlrs. But if you want to record more channels you can't Record and monitor in mono via xlr inputs while also recording stereo via plugins/internal mics.

The internal mics are not in the best league compared to D50. way to noisy for low level recordings.

[Flix]

Originally Posted by ErikG

The internal mics are not in the best league compared to D50. way to noisy for low level recordings.

just OT wondering,all my low level recordings with D50 like e.g. interior quiet ambience have been too noisy to be useable.

[ErikG]

Internal mics on R26 is worse.
what really bugs me is that electrets are quite inexpensive. Why not put the best possible ones rather than the chosen ones. I really don't get it.
The em 172 I use with it cost 10$ a pice when buying singles... Order a few hundred and the price is prob half or less...

[mish mash]

... in fact, I just did a comparison between the R-26 pres and the (formerly Edirol, currently) Roland R-44 (no mod), and the R-26 sounded quieter! less hissy.

The two samples and some pictures of the setup can be found here:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B8M...JlOWQ5YzU2ZmJk

I used a kitchen timer as my source and two Audio Technica BP4025 - one for each recorder 13" away from the timer. These two files were tracked simultaneously in a semi-anechoic room (more like a large VO room).

The gain settings were: R-26: sens: -56dBu, gain at "60%"
R-44: sens: -56dBu, gain at "full"
the recordings were then adjusted for equal apparent level (judging by the ticking) in my DAW, and exported.

Note that while the R-44 was at max sensitivity and max level (though i know that level is just digital gain), the R-26 still had another sensitivity setting beyond -56 and the level was only at 60%. Before I adjusted it down to 60, at 100 the ticking was actually clipping the recorder with the mic 13" away from the timer. This was nowhere near the level I was getting on the R-44.
OK, so level alone may or not be worth considering, but the noisiness is indisputable!

What do you guys make of this?!
Supposedly the R-44 is the superior unit, and at twice the retail cost, you would think it would be. Thoughts? Any apparent holes in my investigation?

At this point I'm fairly convinced that the pres are better on the R-26, and the only reason i'm still considering the 44 is because of the number of mic inputs...

[danijel]

Originally Posted by mish mash

What do you guys make of this?!
Supposedly the R-44 is the superior unit, and at twice the retail cost, you would think it would be. Thoughts? Any apparent holes in my investigation?

Now that was a really interesting test, thanks. I'm not electrically too well grounded (pun intended), but my feeling tells me I would never test any piece of equipment at full gain setting (or at any extreme for that matter). Strange things sometimes happen in the last 10% of the way, so I'd be happier if your test was done with analog gain at, say 80%, and digital at 0, as far as R-44 goes.
BTW, I consider the R-44 a very very handy unit, but we always knew the preamps are hissy.... but the difference here is enormous.....!

[mish mash]

Yes danijel,

I think you are right. In general it's wise to stay away from that region on the gain knob, although this is how they test their recorders at avisoft: Avisoft Bioacoustics - Microphone Input Noise Comparision.

The other point is that, that analog gain setting on the R-44 should be completely useful. I'm still not totally clear on the little "level" knob, but if that is true digital gain then it should make no contribution to the noise (although in the field - I would most certainly keep it at zero).

[ErikG]

Agreed the preamps are quite good on the R26 it's the internal mics that aren't good enough.
I will mod mine as soon as I can get my hands on a spare front end as the pcb connectors seem to be non standard. And I want to be able to put the original one back I'd the are warranty issues.

[StevenEdwardsAud]

So you guys think the R-26 is a good investment for recording short films when using an external mic?

I'm also looking for a portable recorder and the preamps are really the only concern for me since I won't be using any built in microphones.

Anyone have suggestions on other portable recorders that might be better quality?

[ErikG]

To get better you have to step a notch. First step up would be the tascam 680, next step any Sound Devices recorder.
Price increases a lot for the quality increase though.

[mish mash]

I just upgraded from the R-26 to the 680. I will do the same kitchen timer test, tonight possibly and post on this thread.

If two channels is all you're looking for, I think the pres on the R-26 will be good. For film you will probably need sync(?), which the R-26 lacks.

[SoundsandImages]

Hi Mish Mash, How are you getting on with the Tascam ?

Looking at a number of options and will start my own thread. But just wondered how you find it as you have two of my contenders...

[mish mash]

I am very happy with Tascam DR-680.

You've probably read enough about some of its shortcomings on this board and others. To me they're part of the idiosyncrasies that come with most gear, that we eventually learn to live with - I did (the ditgitally stepped headphone control being one. The transport controls being on top of the unit rather than on the 'face' being another).

Regarding some of the horror stories relating to the buggy OS - I have had no such issues - knock on wood. In my first outing with the unit I got a strange system error, but I suspect that had more to do with a questionable battery setup than with the unit itself. I have since resolved the powering issue, and it has been running smoothly. (there's a wealth of information about powering this unit elsewhere so i'll leave you to it, but in case you're curious I use this)

For the price range and for the number of inputs (6 counting the 2 TRS which can provide 48v) you'd be hard pressed to do better. While I haven't followed up on the kitchen timer test for this unit like I mentioned in my initial post, The 680 was the better unit for me at the end, because it provided me with more high quality pres than the R-26.

Is it the quietest recorder in the world? No. Would I go for the mod that will lower my noise floor by another 10 dB? Absolutely, as soon as I have the cash.

Hope that helps!
Let me know if you have any more specific questions.

m

[Jazznfunk]

Do not use Lo Cut on R-26! Lo Cut adds noise to signal - perhaps very bad design of schematics or so. If you are recording very strong signal, you can use it, but hiss with lo cut appears even on mid level signals.

Overall - good piece in this price range.

[darkstar]

Can somebody compare internal mics on r26 to older r-09HR ?

Thanks