New Computer Time

[FullFrequency]

Hello all,

So new year, new computer.

I'm currently running PT10 Native with CPTK on a Woodcrest 2.66 - it works.... only just, so it's definitely time for an upgrade.

With Apple seemingly messing around with Mac Pro, and the place I work for full time using PC I'm now considering a qualified PC for my home rig. Has anyone any experience of the current crop of qualified PC workstations? I'm using an XW8600 at work (about the same age as as my Mac) on 7.4 and it works, but has not been without serious problems in the past. I'm really asking about the Zseries 800 or 400? or more particularly the Dell range. i don't know anyone who has ever used them with PT.... seems like in London we're HP Workstation heavy.

Any thoughts would be appreciated! I'll mostly be using the system for cutting effects, sound design type work and smaller scale mixes.

Thanks in advance!

[JSt0rm]

bad time to upgrade.

New macpros around the corner. I would guess another 2 months tops. Its still only a guess but thats my far out point.

"Previously, the Xeon E5 product families were scheduled for a Q4 2011 release, but CPU World has find out that Intel's current roadmaps place the launch of these chips in the second Q1 of 2012."

Intel Xeon E5 Sandy Bridge-E CPUs Launch Schedule

The problem was that their was a hardware bug in the sata part on the first set of new motherboards for the sandybridge consumer parts. I think this knocked everything back a few months unfortunately.

Now everybody wants to think the macpro is going away but they dont have any cpu to put in a new macpro until q1 2012 so the death calls are a bit premature.

I would rather wait for those parts to be in the market before I say macpro is dead and make a purchase decision.

[JSt0rm]

to answer your question more directly you will find that all workstations are waiting for this new cpu. So you should wait regardless of pc/mac

[FullFrequency]

Originally Posted by JSt0rm

to answer your question more directly you will find that all workstations are waiting for this new cpu. So you should wait regardless of pc/mac

Thanks....case closed - wait a couple of months and struggle on a little more it is!

[JSt0rm]

I'm in the same boat. woodcrest 2.66ghz. Damn good computer but her time has come.

[FullFrequency]

Originally Posted by JSt0rm

I'm in the same boat. woodcrest 2.66ghz. Damn good computer but her time has come.

Too true, has served me well, probably not even worth anything to sell on nowadays sadly.

[JSt0rm]

certainly worth to keep as backup.

I would hate to be in a position that I had to buy something today. Thats when you get killed on price. So if the new computer breaks somehow you are still running.

[rcutz]

Originally Posted by FullFrequency

Thanks....case closed - wait a couple of months and struggle on a little more it is!

yeah... same thing here... waiting, waiting...

[tom_lowe]

Originally Posted by rcutz

yeah... same thing here... waiting, waiting...

Could always get a PC with the new i7 extreme 3960X or the i7 3930. Not much difference apart from single CPU, exactly the same as what the new Xeons will be based on, only limited to 6-cores. Still a massive upgrade over what you currently have.

[ggegan]

I was in the same boat and was waiting for the new Mac Pros to come out, but it was just taking too damn long and I had to make a move.

What I did was buy a used 4.1 Nehalem 8 core on eBay. I saved a big bundle of money and the computer is plenty powerful enough to run huge feature sessions on my HD Native system.

I will still need another Mac Pro sometime this year, but I'm not sure whether I'll go for a new MP if and when it comes out. Lately I've acquired a profound appreciation for the benefits of avoiding the bleeding edge of technology. I've found that the result of an equipment purchase is more predictable, and my money goes a lot further, and so far I haven't suffered any appreciable lack of capability because I have been able to buy fully loaded high end models for less than the cost of the stock entry level models.

[JSt0rm]

Originally Posted by ggegan

I was in the same boat and was waiting for the new Mac Pros to come out, but it was just taking too damn long and I had to make a move.

What I did was buy a used 4.1 Nehalem 8 core on eBay. I saved a big bundle of money and the computer is plenty powerful enough to run huge feature sessions on my HD Native system.

I will still need another Mac Pro sometime this year, but I'm not sure whether I'll go for a new MP if and when it comes out. Lately I've acquired a profound appreciation for the benefits of avoiding the bleeding edge of technology. I've found that the result of an equipment purchase is more predictable, and my money goes a lot further, and so far I haven't suffered any appreciable lack of capability because I have been able to buy fully loaded high end models for less than the cost of the stock entry level models.

Yeah I dont know if I will buy a new one or grab one on ebay but the ebay prices will drop on the current crop when they do come out.

If I absolutely had to buy right now I would buy of course, working comes first.

whats interesting is from the intel line up we may have a cheap 6 core cpu at 3.2ghz. I dream that could be in the $2500 config but we will see.

[FullFrequency]

Originally Posted by ggegan

I was in the same boat and was waiting for the new Mac Pros to come out, but it was just taking too damn long and I had to make a move.

What I did was buy a used 4.1 Nehalem 8 core on eBay. I saved a big bundle of money and the computer is plenty powerful enough to run huge feature sessions on my HD Native system.

I will still need another Mac Pro sometime this year, but I'm not sure whether I'll go for a new MP if and when it comes out. Lately I've acquired a profound appreciation for the benefits of avoiding the bleeding edge of technology. I've found that the result of an equipment purchase is more predictable, and my money goes a lot further, and so far I haven't suffered any appreciable lack of capability because I have been able to buy fully loaded high end models for less than the cost of the stock entry level models.

Thanks Gary, that's great to know! I wont be needing feature track counts (yet) but i do write dance music running lots of plugs. this could be the way to go! I dont really fancy spending that much on a system again when computer speed improvements seem to be outrunning audio requirements. Knowing that Mac Pro line is continuing means i'll probably get a used 8core westmere when the new line is released.

cheers

[D'Animation]

Originally Posted by FullFrequency

Too true, has served me well, probably not even worth anything to sell on nowadays sadly.

You might be surprised - sold my 5yr old white macbook with a broken battery and made back half what I spent - I was shocked to say the least. Laptops might sell better than desktops I suppose...

[Jesse Peterson]

I had a computer shop down the street from me build a PC for me last spring.

win7 64
i7930
24gb ram
6drive bays
lots of usb/firewire
some crazy gamer motherboard and GPU card

whole thing cost me 1100+

it's definitely not "approved"
and I've never had a problem with it

[ThisIsSka]

Originally Posted by D'Animation

You might be surprised - sold my 5yr old white macbook with a broken battery and made back half what I spent - I was shocked to say the least. Laptops might sell better than desktops I suppose...

Macs in general don't depreciate as much as regular computers AFAIK.

[rcutz]

I guys it's worth grab one used 3.1 harpertown, 2.8, 8 core mac pro, for half the price of a new one, here in brazil?

Going that way with the money I need to buy one new mac pro I buy also one MC CONTROL...

I usually mix around 100 tracks on features and some documentaries...

Cheers

Ricardo

[ggegan]

Originally Posted by rcutz

I guys it's worth grab one used 3.1 harpertown, 2.8, 8 core mac pro, for half the price of a new one, here in brazil?

Going that way with the money I need to buy one new mac pro I buy also one MC CONTROL...

I usually mix around 100 tracks on features and some documentaries...

Cheers

Ricardo

If you are only intending to run TDM for the next few years, then a Harpertown is okay, but if you think you may be upgrading to HDX or crossgrading to HD Native, then a used 4.1 Nehalem is a better choice for compatability reasons.

[rcutz]

Originally Posted by ggegan

If you are only intending to run TDM for the next few years, then a Harpertown is okay, but if you think you may be upgrading to HDX or crossgrading to HD Native, then a used 4.1 Nehalem is a better choice for compatability reasons.

Hi Ggegan. Thanks for the input, but I`m looking at AVID compatiblity grid`s and they support this computer (harpertown one or two quadcore 2.8 - wich is the one I`m willing to buy) of PRO TOOL 9 With Native and does Support to Pro Tools 10 HD. I understand that are others that could not work.

Weel, but this compatibility issue a part, do you think it will work well with a Native System?

Thanks for the input. A Nehalem should be better, but there are none at my area... I`m a little bit afraid of buying something from other guys, from other state...where I can`t test the machine.

edit:
yeah... with a HarperTown, I can`t move straight to HDX. New board. New Machine. ok. I will give it a second tough.

[wxyz]

Originally Posted by Jesse Peterson

I had a computer shop down the street from me build a PC for me last spring.

win7 64
i7930
24gb ram
6drive bays
lots of usb/firewire
some crazy gamer motherboard and GPU card

whole thing cost me 1100+

it's definitely not "approved"
and I've never had a problem with it

Where in NYC?

[rcutz]

I guys I just finish a test drive with a Mac pro3.1; 8 core 2.8 - harpertown, with 8giga of ram. Pro tools 10. 6 cores at 99%. Dly comp at Long.

Around 100 audio tracks. 1 channel strip per channel. Stems bussing, 18 reverbs (TL space, revolver and lexicon). 20min reel with one quick time with Dv codec.

The system usage barely hit 50%. So, now I'm amazed that I really don't need to have the last piece of computer hardware...

[FullFrequency]

Originally Posted by rcutz

I guys I just finish a test drive with a Mac pro3.1; 8 core 2.8 - harpertown, with 8giga of ram. Pro tools 10. 6 cores at 99%. Dly comp at Long.

Around 100 audio tracks. 1 channel strip per channel. Stems bussing, 18 reverbs (TL space, revolver and lexicon). 20min reel with one quick time with Dv codec.

The system usage barely hit 50%. So, now I'm amazed that I really don't need to have the last piece of computer hardware...

What was it's response time like - meaning jumping around the timeline, making edits, quick playing and stopping etc?

Sounds really great!!!!

[rcutz]

Originally Posted by FullFrequency

What was it's response time like - meaning jumping around the timeline, making edits, quick playing and stopping etc?

Sounds really great!!!!

We set the memory usage for timeline caching to just 4G - remembering that the system takes 3G, so we can use up to 5G, but we set to just 4.

With that set up we have a full disk cache and around 65-75% of timeline cached. The computer was really smooth and fast.

[ggegan]

Originally Posted by rcutz

Hi Ggegan. Thanks for the input, but I`m looking at AVID compatiblity grid`s and they support this computer (harpertown one or two quadcore 2.8 - wich is the one I`m willing to buy) of PRO TOOL 9 With Native and does Support to Pro Tools 10 HD. I understand that are others that could not work.

Weel, but this compatibility issue a part, do you think it will work well with a Native System?

Thanks for the input. A Nehalem should be better, but there are none at my area... I`m a little bit afraid of buying something from other guys, from other state...where I can`t test the machine.

edit:
yeah... with a HarperTown, I can`t move straight to HDX. New board. New Machine. ok. I will give it a second tough.

It won't work for HDX and although it will work with HD Native, some people have reported problems with DAE errors on Harpertowns. Apparently moving the card to a different slot helps some users, but not others. I use a Harpertown for my HD6 TDM system and it works great, but for my HD Native system I bought a used 8 core 4.1 Nehalem and haven't had any issues whatsoever.

The other thing to think about is that RAM for Harpertowns are almost 3 times more expensive than for Nehalems. For PT10 I went with 32GB of RAM so I could take advantage of RAM cacheing for super sessions on large feature projects. The difference in price between that much RAM from Other World Computing for a Harpertown vs a Nehalem is about $650, or $1000 vs $350.

[rcutz]

Originally Posted by ggegan

It won't work for HDX and although it will work with HD Native, some people have reported problems with DAE errors on Harpertowns. Apparently moving the card to a different slot helps some users, but not others. I use a Harpertown for my HD6 TDM system and it works great, but for my HD Native system I bought a used 8 core 4.1 Nehalem and haven't had any issues whatsoever.

The other thing to think about is that RAM for Harpertowns are almost 3 times more expensive than for Nehalems. For PT10 I went with 32GB of RAM so I could take advantage of RAM cacheing for super sessions on large feature projects. The difference in price between that much RAM from Other World Computing for a Harpertown vs a Nehalem is about $650, or $1000 vs $350.

ggean, DAE errors, do you mean don`t be able to work, or could work with those annoying errors? I`m aware of this cost on memorys. But I did not have nehalems/westmeres used to sale on brazil... do you believe?

[ggegan]

Originally Posted by rcutz

ggean, DAE errors, do you mean don`t be able to work, or could work with those annoying errors? I`m aware of this cost on memorys. But I did not have nehalems/westmeres used to sale on brazil... do you believe?

DAE errors sometimes require a reboot. They happen occasionally on any system, but if they happen too often, it's very difficult to get work done. There are some threads on the DUC that discuss DAE errors with Harpertowns and HD Native that will explain the issues. Some people have been able to resolve the issues and others haven't.

[rcutz]

ggean. Yeah I`m aware of the problems people faced at the time of changing pcie to native. I read a lot of posts at DUC. Sometimes people find out a lot plugins problems and other time issues with 64 buffer size. I pm`ed Charles, whom has such machine and use native and he did not find any error.. it`s looking like a lottery. I`m looking forward to some 4,1/5,1 machines... If I did not find any to sell, I will take a chance. Any way thanks for your advice. It helps a lot. All the best. Ricardo

[rcutz]

Hi just to let you know that I sucessfully start to use a 2008, 2X 2.28 8 Core 3,1 Mac pro with HD Native and 96 i/o, without any glitch!

As Ggean has said, the memory upgrade for this machine is more expansive then other recent macs (8Giga/U$259 coming from OWC), but this machine completely full fill my demand for film sound post production at this time.

I install the os x 10.6.7, the HD Native card on the second slot. Install pro tools HD 10. Followed the firmware upgrade request, check the firmware of the 96 I/O. Hit play and everything goes all right.

With 100 tracks of audio, 100 channel strips, 6 stereo altiverbs and stems bussing, with 6 cores, 99% cpu usage and 512 of buffer, the cpu usage barely hit 40%. And at this moment I just have 4 Giga of ram.

Thanks for all the inputs.
r.

[FullFrequency]

Originally Posted by rcutz

Hi just to let you know that I sucessfully start to use a 2008, 2X 2.28 8 Core 3,1 Mac pro with HD Native and 96 i/o, without any glitch!

As Ggean has said, the memory upgrade for this machine is more expansive then other recent macs (8Giga/U$259 coming from OWC), but this machine completely full fill my demand for film sound post production at this time.

I install the os x 10.6.7, the HD Native card on the second slot. Install pro tools HD 10. Followed the firmware upgrade request, check the firmware of the 96 I/O. Hit play and everything goes all right.

With 100 tracks of audio, 100 channel strips, 6 stereo altiverbs and stems bussing, with 6 cores, 99% cpu usage and 512 of buffer, the cpu usage barely hit 40%. And at this moment I just have 4 Giga of ram.

Thanks for all the inputs.
r.

Thanks for the update Ricardo! Good to know you found a suitable solution for yourself!