Auro 3D Audio for Post/Features

[rack gear]

Auro Technologies

Anyone in Europe know about this company, looks interesting.

[rack gear]

looks like Barco?
Barco | Barco completes first U.S. Auro-3D installations for Cinemark, Regal Entertainment Group and AMC Entertainment

Rancho Cordova, Calif., USA – 15 November 2011 – Barco, Guinness World Record holder for the brightest digital cinema projector, has successfully completed the first Auro-3D® installations in the United States at commercial theaters for the world's largest movie exhibitors: Cinemark (Dallas), Regal Entertainment Group (Los Angeles) and AMC Entertainment (Miami). These latest Auro-3D installations follow on the heels of deployments in Russia and China, now elevating the sensory experience at movie theaters on three continents.

[jonathanh]

From what I can gather from the marketing blurb on the site, I would be interested to hear what advantages this has over other 'with height' surround systems like Ambisonics.

[GearOnTheGo]

I can't tell if it's a proprietary mixing environment, or if it's just an interpolated matrix type decoder using existing 5.1 / 7.1 stems and spreading them into overheads...

There's an installed playback system in a commercial theater in Calabasas CA, so I would imagine its the later not the former...

[GearOnTheGo]

Originally Posted by jonathanh

From what I can gather from the marketing blurb on the site, I would be interested to hear what advantages this has over other 'with height' surround systems like Ambisonics.

I'd love to learn more about Ambisonics as well. Auro seems to have partnered with Barco, so that should give them a strong competitive advantage for installations.

[rack gear]

I should have posted this sooner, Red Tails was mixed in Auro 3D sound. For folks in LA there's a theater in Calabasas has a theater equipped for it, it's the Regal up off the 101...

Red Tails did pretty good, #2 opening weekend, exceeded expectations and got the Auro guys the kiss of goodwill from Lucas.

No doubt an expanded theater sound spec is coming 9.1/11.1 height speakers give better reproductions of ambient reflections.

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by rack gear

I should have posted this sooner, Red Tails was mixed in Auro 3D sound. For folks in LA there's a theater in Calabasas has a theater equipped for it, it's the Regal up off the 101...

Red Tails did pretty good, #2 opening weekend, exceeded expectations and got the Auro guys the kiss of goodwill from Lucas.

No doubt an expanded theater sound spec is coming 9.1/11.1 height speakers give better reproductions of ambient reflections.

I think Chris and Marti at the Dub Stage were impressed with this system- hopefully they can chime in....

[funkcity]

Hey Charles
What it is is a way to get more channels out of a 5.1 Master.
Essentially stealing the bits that are in the noise effectively having a 5.1 and lets say an additional upper 5.1 riding on top. The bit-stealing scenario renders the original 24 bit channel to be somewhat less....20?, 18, 16 bits?

Now when you deliver a 7.1 today it's a separate file to the 5.1 and it may be a stacked DCP meaning that at the theater the 5.1 would have to load or be recognized before the 7.1 could play. New software is coming down the pipe every day to make this easier. But remember, the DCI spec is for 16 96KHZ channels today.

There does not seem to be any reason to bit-split. Seems to be another invention to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

Bandwidth requirements for a continuous stream compressed image and 16 channels of 24-bit at 96K uncompressed audio channels is only 307 Mbits per second....pretty easy these days!

Also, AMS DFC console has modified a joystick panner for this. The right joystick is standard 5.1 The left channel is the elevation stick to the upper 5.1
Nuendo 5 also has a stacked or dual upper/lower 5.1 panner also.

It will sound ok but remember what I'm telling you here. Some of us pounded the table at meetings demanding true 24 bit uncompressed audio for digital cinema. And we got it. Lets not phukk it up now!

[charles maynes]

thanks for the info Jay-

I personally still think we barely get enough time to exploit even 5.1 to its fullest- but when I was talking to Marti and Chris they said they were really impressed with it-

I guess its a tool in the tool box, but standardization always concerns me.... I might add, I am not sure if film sound "should" be as immersive as we are steering towards- at least in a traditional sense, however I do know I sound like a crotchity old fogey in saying that....

[funkcity]

Well I still love 5 across the front. That is where your movie is playing from and the realism to me is incomparable. SDDS had the right idea and wrong implementation. We are screening lots of 7.1 4-across-the-back digital films this year.

"crotchity old fogey" er...uh.... me too!. Todd AO had it right in 1955 with 30 frames per second and 5 across the front!

[charles maynes]

Hey Jay- you are preaching to the choir on the 5 screen channels- I know when JJ won with U571 it was a critical reason for the success- Greg L set up the mix so we had the inside L/R for FX only and Music only sat in the outside L/R which was VERY useful for clarity....

what I would REALLY love to see is a stacked set of screen channels where the MX/FX/DIA could have their own speaker channels..... Even if it was just LCR, I think it would really reduce the intermodulation distortion that most loud action films seem to fall prey to. I dont know if the Academy or CAS has considered that, but I think it is worthy of conversation.....

[matt82aust]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

Hey Jay- you are preaching to the choir on the 5 screen channels- I know when JJ won with U571 it was a critical reason for the success- Greg L set up the mix so we had the inside L/R for FX only and Music only sat in the outside L/R which was VERY useful for clarity....

what I would REALLY love to see is a stacked set of screen channels where the MX/FX/DIA could have their own speaker channels..... Even if it was just LCR, I think it would really reduce the intermodulation distortion that most loud action films seem to fall prey to. I dont know if the Academy or CAS has considered that, but I think it is worthy of conversation.....

Very interesting thoughts. There are so many formats and arrangements been pushed / created lately I have honestly switched off without giving them much attention, but that does make sense to me.

[jonathanh]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

what I would REALLY love to see is a stacked set of screen channels where the MX/FX/DIA could have their own speaker channels..... Even if it was just LCR, I think it would really reduce the intermodulation distortion that most loud action films seem to fall prey to. I dont know if the Academy or CAS has considered that, but I think it is worthy of conversation.....

This is a really interesting idea I haven't seen suggested before, would be great to hear if there would be a considerable benefit to a set up like this across the front.

[Sergio HD51]

Originally Posted by rack gear

Auro Technologies

Anyone in Europe know about this company, looks interesting.

Take a look at Imm Sound a spanish company that provide up to 23.1 channels, but its 3D inmersive perception its above ''the war channels''. IMM has theaters all over ther world...

Cheers!

[funkcity]

Originally Posted by matt82aust

Very interesting thoughts. There are so many formats and arrangements been pushed / created lately I have honestly switched off without giving them much attention, but that does make sense to me.

When Sony Studios were doing SDDS 7.1 mixing (5 across the front) the mixers could choose to spread everything and really place sounds as on the screen without the use of phantom imaging. But the other things they could and did do was as an example use 1,3,5 for the big effects and move the music to 2 and 4 and visa versa. Much better clarity and less distortion. Also some mixers used the 2 and 4 inners as bass reinforcement only as in the Dolby baby-booms that were used for 70 mm films of the past.
5 across the front is more viable now as the processors can match the speakers much better now.

[joris de man]

I had a demo recently of this system in The Netherlands; it was developed by the guys from Galaxy Studios in Belgium and is basically a 5.1 system with additional speakers placed on top of the regular ones. In addition a ceiling speaker can be added pointing down for a 'voice of god' effect. The demos I heard sounded fantastic and it definitely added something special, basically allowing you vertical movement as well as the immersion of 5.1. Even for music recording (they demoed a Desplat piece recorded this way sounded spectacular. In addition the encoding with bit 'stealing' was done to allow backwards compatibillity with 5.1 streams. I don't know how fast it will be adopted, but it wasn't a fad; it really takes it to another level and it is worth checking out.

[PeterN]

I don't think this is a new concept, they just add a few more channels to the system....

Have a look at the guys from IOSONO, their system is based on WaveField Synthesis and is way more advanced.
I've heard it once in a presentation and it really blew me away. When I get it right then they're able to play out
every format, such as 22.2 or even more...

[rack gear]

I just found this on YouTube with the guy who created it...


and this is an older one uploaded by Barco


and another from SAE...

[InternJesse]

Originally Posted by rack gear

I just found this on YouTube with the guy who created it...


and this is an older one uploaded by Barco


and another from SAE...

Audio engineer porn.

[Fredo]

Hahaha, In the first video, one of the most funny slip of tongues by Wilfried.

"The 11mm glass is Bouzuki-proof", instead of Bazooka proof.


Although it's a competitor, Galaxi Rules!

Fredo
Temple Of Tune
Belgium

[Tom Fleischman]

I'm just wondering about who is going to be burdened with the cost of converting all the theaters and mixing stages and the console and storage upgrades?

People are watching movies on iPads, in mono...

[Smallbudgetguru]

Originally Posted by Tom Fleischman

I'm just wondering about who is going to be burdened with the cost of converting all the theaters and mixing stages and the console and storage upgrades?

People are watching movies on iPads, in mono...

+1 for realism! Hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars in gear and experience, mixing in big rooms on big speakers all for a mix to wind up on those white earbuds and speakers on ipad or macbooks!

[Tom Fleischman]

That said, I am interested in the new multi-channel systems.

The truth is that all theaters will be needing major conversions over the next couple of decades. Film is going away...quickly. The last film camera has been built. Eventually all the working cameras will be broken and won't be fixed. Film projectors will be removed from cinemas, systems will need to be upgraded and all theaters will be affected. There is no reason not to upgrade sound systems as well. I hope that reason can prevail and some kind of standard can be agreed to. One thing the 1970's and the 1990's taught me is that format wars are not a good thing (think 8-Track, BetaMax and SDDS).

The thing that worries me about all of this is the problem of film archiving and preservation. Movies will only exist as DCPs under strict control of the studios. Will the studios allow them to be seen? What happens to revivals and retropectives? How will the not-yet-made but ultimately old films be seen? Will we still be able to call them "films"?

[charles maynes]

Tom, being in my opinion a "god" of the film art is dead on in this assessment-

with DCP, it is highly unlikely of us finding lost scenes in a dumpster from "Hugo" or anything shot digital-

there was a great article written about the Restoration of "Lawrence of Arabia" that another titan of the film craft, Richard Anderson did some years ago-

Steve Lee at Hollywood Lost and Found, and another minor legend in our tiny gypsy community of artisans published this about the project on his Hollywood Lost and Found website- Dave Stone conducted the interview for his film newsletter, and both Dave and Steve were long time collaborators (co-conspirators) with Mr Anderson.... (and yes, there is a minor nod to the Matrix there)

http://hollywoodlostandfound.net/sou...nce/page1.html


ps- Dave Stone also received the Academy Award with Tom McCarthy on Coppola's "Bram Stokers' Dracula"

[PeterN]

In my opinion it is all about creating extra value.

If the perceived value of a sound flying across the audience is big enough, then people will pay for a sound "advantage". As with 3D in picture, it will not work with every film, but for animee's or such stuff. Currently, you'll most likely find noone stating how fabulous sound was after watching a blockbuster movie. And that is because nothing spectacular happens to the listener. Common cinema sound is very diffuse and not very precise in terms of sound orientation.

It doesn't "add" a value to experience. Indeed, I have a clearer picture and better sound in a "home cinema".

[ramil]

there are quite a few ambisonic systems created but I see one big issue there "cinemas wont want to buy extra set of speakers cables etc..) it will cost more to do 9channels or more of mixing in audio post..

[PeterN]

Originally Posted by ramil

there are quite a few ambisonic systems created but I see one big issue there "cinemas wont want to buy extra set of speakers cables etc..) it will cost more to do 9channels or more of mixing in audio post..

I partly agree. It will cost a significant amount of money to equipp cinemas with 3D sound systems, but same is true for 3D picture. Consequently you have to take higher ticket prices. And that's the problem: is the perceived value "enough" for cinemagoers to spend some extra money?

Secondly, one could look at it the other way round. What can cinemas actually do to stay in the market? Currently, my simple 5.1 system at home and my Full-HD LED TV are delivering best quality. With BlueRay's released 4-5 months after the initial cinema release, the question is how cinemas at all can motivate people to buy tickets.

They have to step up and offer something that isn't (currently) possible @ home. Something spectacular. And - in my opinion - this is not about adding another row of loudspeakers, as Auro3D is doing it. The way how such production is being mixing is important. It's about creating a completely new listening experience. And I believe the only way of doing it is Wavefield Synthesis. I've heard it once in a presentation of IOSONO in the Chinese' theater in L.A. THIS was unbelieveable.

[PeterN]

Forgot the link: IOSONO | the future of spatial audio