Can you lay off to tape using....

[FullFrequency]

Pro Tools Native 9 (fully expanded with Complete Toolkit) - NOT HD?

I've just been asked by someone I know, and was curious if there was any i/o option that allowed it without using a SyncHD!

Thanks

[quadraphonics]

It is technically possible, but kind of a pain in the ass. You will need to convert the LTC to MTC and set up the midi in Pro Tools to read the MTC. I used to do this back in the PT 6 LE days with a USD and a 001.
You will need to set Pro Tools to jam sync.

Randall

Originally Posted by FullFrequency

Pro Tools Native 9 (fully expanded with Complete Toolkit) - NOT HD?

I've just been asked by someone I know, and was curious if there was any i/o option that allowed it without using a SyncHD!

Thanks

[Geert van den Berg]

I have done this often in the past using Gallery's 009 and PT7.

Not sure, but will probably work with PT 9 as well.

009

[FullFrequency]

Thanks guys!

Does it give 100% locked frame edge alignment? One of my clients would like to lay off Dolby E from it....

What is it with me and Dolby E at the moment....

[Geert van den Berg]

I can't tell for sure, never used it with Dolby E.

If it were not Dolby E, there's actually a free MTC application, which I have used in the same way. The benefit of the Gallery application it checks its sync with the return LTC signal from the deck.

I'll look if I can find the free application. Worth a try.

[Geert van den Berg]

Found it. I have tried it with Pro Tools and even Soundtrack Pro, but never really tested it for accuracy, so don't blame me if you if doesn't work. Do report back though!

With this free app you can only slave your application to the deck.

SMPTE Reader | Timecode Synchronizer

[Geert van den Berg]

One tip. When using 009.

Make sure your the deck is supplying the Pro Tools with wordclock, if the interface doesn't have a wordclock input, then just use an S/Pdif/ADAT input and select this as sync source in the sesssion setup menu (command-2), otherwise you'll get ticks in the audio and then it will certainly not work with Dolby E.

[FullFrequency]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

One tip. When using 009.

Make sure your the deck is supplying the Pro Tools with wordclock, if the interface doesn't have a wordclock input, then just use an S/Pdif/ADAT input and select this as sync source in the sesssion setup menu (command-2), otherwise you'll get ticks in the audio and then it will certainly not work with Dolby E.

Thanks Geerd! I'll give this a try when I go round to see them tomorrow! Based on my recent Dolby E exploits and knowing it's delicacy with reference, this sounds ominous already...... I'll let you know how I get on!

[jahtao]

dont fancy your chances doing dolby E : /

[kkfaudio]

Originally Posted by jahtao

dont fancy your chances doing dolby E : /

Me neither - I spent quite a while trying to output Dolby E from my 002 based system to tape and was never successful. Using Motu Digital Timepiece as LTC converter, trying various sources as wordclock, house sync, etc.

Decoding from tape with Neyrinck plugin always works, but I could never get something I output from ProTools to decode.

I recorded the stream into PT and the waveform looked like a normal Dolby E waveform, and I even sent a copy of it to Paul Neyrinck, and we were never able to determine the cause.

My suspicion is that the sync just isn't tight enough, so the frame edges weren't in quite the right place - but that's a guess, and I've given up trying..

If you do get it to work, I'd love to hear how...

Good luck!

Kevin

[jahtao]

I've had bad luck with everything except a HDSR5500 being fed HD black ref!!!

[FullFrequency]

Yeah the Dolby E was a no-go. We managed to hook up to the deck and get audio going down though, but obviously this didn't really help. Drop-ins were a bit hit and miss. I had to chose moments of fast transitent to get in without the odd click here or there, so that'll prove that the sync isn't tight.

The plan is now for me to do the mixes in their studio, and then I'll create a layback session, and bring them back to our place to master (which is where the picture's getting mastered anyway)

Thanks for your help guys!!!

To be honest, and this might sound a little mad, but.......I'm actually really glad it didn't work!!! Otherwise what's the point in HD Native??? (at least that's a major thing that higher end PT systems and post houses will be needed for!) It has made me worry about the direction our industry's going in that's for sure!

[Patch Morrison]

Originally Posted by FullFrequency

What is it with me and Dolby E at the moment....

ugh...I swear every doco we do at the moment has a dolby E stream. and the latest Sky spec? good lord that makes my face hurt..

[FullFrequency]

Originally Posted by Patch Morrison

ugh...I swear every doco we do at the moment has a dolby E stream. and the latest Sky spec? good lord that makes my face hurt..

Well they've acquired livingTV and also their skyArts channels are now in HD, so there's a lot more material that'll have to be delivered to their recently updated HD spec..... Which I personally think is overly complex for what they actually do with it. My next 2 series are on shows that are going to sky owned channels....as was my last one, so it's kind of ok once you're used to it..... Plus our assistant does all the playbacks and Dolby encoding e

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by Patch Morrison

ugh...I swear every doco we do at the moment has a dolby E stream. and the latest Sky spec? good lord that makes my face hurt..

Overhere I thought I'd noticed a decline in Dolby E. Basically because almost everybody goes filebased and those mxf's can easily hold more tracks.

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by FullFrequency

Yeah the Dolby E was a no-go. We managed to hook up to the deck and get audio going down though, but obviously this didn't really help. Drop-ins were a bit hit and miss. I had to chose moments of fast transitent to get in without the odd click here or there, so that'll prove that the sync isn't tight.

Did you try the Gallery application as well? I think it should be tight enough to work, because it is tight enough to not drop any samples. However I don't think it is sample accurate, it could be a couple of sample on or off, but I thought Dolby E has slight spaces around the audio to accomodate for that.

Anyway good to hear you have workflow that suits you better now.

[FullFrequency]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

Did you try the Gallery application as well? I think it should be tight enough to work, because it is tight enough to not drop any samples. However I don't think it is sample accurate, it could be a couple of sample on or off, but I thought Dolby E has slight spaces around the audio to accomodate for that.

Anyway good to hear you have workflow that suits you better now.

Thanks Geert,

They were operating on a windows PC, so from what I could tell from the 009 site it's Mac only? We hooked up using an RME card with a TC I/O option.

Interesting though! If this would work correctly on a Mac, you could buy whatever combination you liked in terms of audio interface and not need to buy HDnative.... that's potentially a massive saving! We're close to doing an upgrade of all our systems (as soon as 10 comes out and settles), and were looking at HDNative coupled with PC/Mac with a ton of Ram. If using a mac this application allows going to any form of tape, especially as the tapeless workflow is going to become more prominent, then why does ANYONE need to go further than Native except for big music studios that need the I/O?

The only thing that I can think of that's potentially a stumbler is that if a job goes between a number of studios, with one making tweaks, (so only dropping in to a master tape) I can imagine there being audible clicks due to slight differences in the sample accuracy between varying hardware. At least with everyone using Avid hardware it should be the same.....