Hd native-omni/ tannoy reveal 5a

[MikeRL]

so, i work for a small animation studio that has a tight budget. we are picking up a series that requires us to make the switch from standard audio, to 5.1.

The room i work in is relatively small, about 13x22. I dont know much about proper 5.1 setups, but i can tell you that we will simply be MEETING the requirement, and have a budget of about 8k to make it happen. I will do the best with what they can provide me on a budget, and try to setup/treat the room as well as possible.

we already have a the components of a small LE rig.

the producer called sweetwater, and with the budget we have, put together a HD native core card and omni interface. with what looks like a Tannoy reveal5a speaker set, with a tannoy ts10 subwoofer.


i am not familiar with these speakers, and i have not used to new HD native stuff.. will this be a decent 5.1 setup for a small animation house?

also, will pthd native come with what i need for ITB surround mixing (the panner), or will i have to get a "production toolkit" sort of thing.

Thanks again.

if anyone has recommendations for other speakers, thats great.. but please keep them in the ballpark price-wise.. as this is a budget thats not going up.

Mike

[Jesse Peterson]

you could get the JBL LSR 4326 surround set+sub

have enough left over to crossgrade to PT9 from LE

and enough to get CPTK2 which will give you 96 channels of PTHD features

[MikeRL]

Originally Posted by Jesse Peterson

you could get the JBL LSR 4326 surround set+sub

have enough left over to crossgrade to PT9 from LE

and enough to get CPTK2 which will give you 96 channels of PTHD features

this would mean sticking with my mbox.. which doens't have the outs i need.. i think the smallest avid interface i can use is a 003..? correct?

Mike

[tom_lowe]

Originally Posted by MikeRL

this would mean sticking with my mbox.. which doens't have the outs i need.. i think the smallest avid interface i can use is a 003..? correct?

Mike

Avid Mbox Pro will do the trick. Or get an RME interface such as the Fireface UC. With PT9 you need the CPTK or CPTK2 (original CPTK license will be cheaper on eBay and does the same thing exactly, hence Avid don't offer an upgrade). With PT9 HD (native or TDM) everything you need comes as standard.

[Sonsey@mac.com]

A couple things you may not have thought of that you'll want with this...

-If you're mixing in 5.1 for Broadcast delivery you WILL ABSOLUTELY need the Dolby Media Meter, or something similar, for measuring Dialnorm and LKFS readings. The meters that come with PT are barely usable in a pinch - I wouldn't want to have to trust them for a whole series worth of QC.

-Plug-ins to create an LtRt from the 5.1 mix. Most Broadcasters still require a Matrixed Stereo track to go along with the Surround mix - do a quick search here for opinions on the various options (Nerynck, Minnetonka, Dolby).

A word of warning here... It's easy to get caught in a situation where you get caught between the money folks (who don't want you to spend it) and the requirements of the show. Even if the bosses say "No we can't afford it" to something like the Dolby Meter, when those shows come flying back from QC, you can bet that YOU'LL be the one thrown to the wolves. If you're gearing up for this show, be sure to get the Broadcast Specs for the show and make sure your system is up to meeting them. If you need to go over the budget to do that, then have a long discussion with the folks in charge of the money about it. Explain that at the end of the day, having to redo work not only costs THEM more money, but erodes your clients confidence, and that cost is HUGE.

As far as the Tannoy's go, I've never been overly fond of them, but you may find them just fine. In that price range ($200.00 / speaker) also check out the KRK Rokit 5's - I prefer them to the Tannoy's, but not to the JBL's or Blue Sky's (but those are out of your price range)

Good Luck!

[mikevarela]

Well, it almost sounds a little like your not sure about the audio dept of things.... I'm not trying to be mean here either, but be pretty sure about needs before spending the 8k.

Animation can mean several things.. you could be the recording end, the editorial end or the mixing end... or all together (probably the case)

You'll need an interface that has at least a few mic pres for recording several actors at once, maybe 4 would work. Then you need a system that can handle a typical mix for a show like this - 50+ tracks would work (more like 70 for all the Fx). Like Sonnsey said, if you're handling broadcast you need a meter to verify levels... the Dolby media meter is the one you should probably get, as well as the software Durrough package to watch measures against spec.

Are you handling laybacks to tape - cause lot's of tv is still on tape.... If so, then you MUST have an HD system so you can resolve to sync for accurate machine control (Sync HD). If not, then you'd be best off getting a 003 rack system (or comparable interface) and PT 9. You'll also need a nice limiter because you'll have specs to limit too. You'll also need a large library of sounds because you'll be creating all of them - so Soundminer should be in your budget too.

When working in surround you should get a monitor controller, many will do but they can be expensive. Check out SPL (850$), it's nice and pretty inexpensive. You'll also need monitors. I'd go with the JBL 43 series 6", but a set of the mackie MR series or KRK Rockits will work well too.

You'll also need a matirx plugin for LtRt, so if you get the PT9 (LE) version, you'll need to get the CPTK (2k) and it'll come with the Neyrinck plugin for stereo, but you can upgrade for 200 to the LTRt version.

You'll also need a headphone amp and cans for clients and some nice talk back system so don't forget that.

And a newer mac to take advantage of it all.

Oh, and a surround reverb - Altiverb is great.

[MikeRL]

Originally Posted by mikevarela

Well, it almost sounds a little like your not sure about the audio dept of things.... I'm not trying to be mean here either, but be pretty sure about needs before spending the 8k.

Animation can mean several things.. you could be the recording end, the editorial end or the mixing end... or all together (probably the case)

You'll need an interface that has at least a few mic pres for recording several actors at once, maybe 4 would work. Then you need a system that can handle a typical mix for a show like this - 50+ tracks would work (more like 70 for all the Fx). Like Sonnsey said, if you're handling broadcast you need a meter to verify levels... the Dolby media meter is the one you should probably get, as well as the software Durrough package to watch measures against spec.

Are you handling laybacks to tape - cause lot's of tv is still on tape.... If so, then you MUST have an HD system so you can resolve to sync for accurate machine control (Sync HD). If not, then you'd be best off getting a 003 rack system (or comparable interface) and PT 9. You'll also need a nice limiter because you'll have specs to limit too. You'll also need a large library of sounds because you'll be creating all of them - so Soundminer should be in your budget too.

When working in surround you should get a monitor controller, many will do but they can be expensive. Check out SPL (850$), it's nice and pretty inexpensive. You'll also need monitors. I'd go with the JBL 43 series 6", but a set of the mackie MR series or KRK Rockits will work well too.

You'll also need a matirx plugin for LtRt, so if you get the PT9 (LE) version, you'll need to get the CPTK (2k) and it'll come with the Neyrinck plugin for stereo, but you can upgrade for 200 to the LTRt version.

You'll also need a headphone amp and cans for clients and some nice talk back system so don't forget that.

And a newer mac to take advantage of it all.

Oh, and a surround reverb - Altiverb is great.

hey, thanks for the reply.

in this case animation means everything. we allready have outboard pre for recording, talkback system, mac, sounds ideas, soundminer ect.. we have been a studio, delivering series shows for about 4 years. but this will be an exciting leap into 5.1

if we go with HD, will a LtRt plug come stock?

also, we will not be doing tape layback.. that will happen out of house.

Mike

[mikevarela]

the neyricnk plug will not come standard as it's 3rd party - though they grouped it with the CPTK, which was helpful. You'll still have to buy this. Also, you'll need a decoder too to listen back. If you go HD, then get the Dolby Tools as they do this realtime.

And grab the Dolby Media Meter for setting dialnorm and reading LKFS.

The HD Native is nice, but to be honest, with ADC added to LE (9), I'd personally go regular PT9 and save the extra money for a monitor controller and a second PT system or new mac. (but that's me)

The only real big difference in HD Native is no latency input monitoring, and of course hook up to HD interfaces and SyncHD if you need it - but you mention you don't, so don't worry about it.

[MikeRL]

so im putting together a new, more informed budget. and im sticking with 003LE and CPTK, saving alot on that native interface, so i can spend some more on speakers and other odds and ends.

how do you all feel about the mackie mr8's for LCR speakers... anything better in the $300/spkr price range. is the 8 to big for nearfield post prod? i plan on using out current 6" tannoys for rears.

also, i was looking at the jbl lsr4312 sub.. over the tannoy ts10, a few hundred more, but worth it? again.. is the 12 to big, should i be looking for a smaller sub? i see a lot of 10's out there.

for a monitor conrtroller, i was looking at the "coleman audio", that sweetwater has for around $850... summing switch, channel mutes, volume.. everything i think i'll need in a controller.

thanks

[DaVogi]

mixing different speakers for surround is dangerous. at least I would stick with models in the same family (just a example altough I'm no genelec fan: 1032 fronts and 1030 rears) - otherwise a sound that gets panned from front to rear would sound really weird.

1x12" isn't really big for a sub... the small single 10" are IMHO more suited for small nearfields and music work. for an dedicated lfe you need real low frequency performance!

you don't need a digi interface. you could get (a bettter and cheaper) interface with enough i/os + pt9+cptk and invest the savings in better monitors. (reveal 5 are looooooooooow end IMHO)

[charles maynes]

If you bought an HD Native card, which you would need to use the OMNI interface, didnt it come with PT9HD?

that card will support a Sync I/O as far as I know....

[JSt0rm]

I dont think you need hd native unless you are doing more then 32 i/o and it sounds liek you aren't.

Also the neyrink plug in that comes with the cptk just does fold downs. The lt/rt plug in is a separate product.

[charles maynes]

I think HD Native will give the best session platform compatibility..... And they will need a card to connect the interface with....

[tom_lowe]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

I think HD Native will give the best session platform compatibility..... And they will need a card to connect the interface with....

He's now talking about keeping the 003 instead of an HD OMNI and PT9 + CPTK/CPTK2 is pretty much exactly the same as PT9 HD and totally compatible.

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by tom_lowe

He's now talking about keeping the 003 instead of an HD OMNI and PT9 + CPTK/CPTK2 is pretty much exactly the same as PT9 HD and totally compatible.

fail on my part.... thanks for the correction.

[mikevarela]

Neyrinck LtRt isn't a separate product per se, as it's more an upgrade tot he existing plugin bundled with the CPTK. I believe it's 200 or 249 more (totally worth it though).

Oh, and lot's of people have been remarking on the Focusrite interfaces lately, and yes you could buy any you like, but then PT 9 will cost 600$ (or 250 upgrade if you have it), so that places most interfaces with decent pres at the same cost as the 003 because it' includes the software. However, and this might suck for you now, Avid is rumored to release the 004 in January (it's been over 3 years with the 003 already).

I have a 003 and love it. it's very versatile and I love the secondary outs for the meters - I actually wish they'd just make a 004 with line inputs instead of pres, as most of us prefer our own.

[MikeRL]

in sticking with all the same speakers, how would 5 mackie mr8's and a 12" jbl sub do me?


Mike

[gfcurtis]

Originally Posted by MikeRL

in sticking with all the same speakers, how would 5 mackie mr8's and a 12" jbl sub do me?


Mike

Don't know if your extended budget can handle it since you are sticking with your 003, but I can't say enough good things about the JBL LSR4326's and 8's. Particularly in a surround set up. The ability to hook up those speakers with eithernet and control them all (including compensation for placement), and the room EQ help really extends the bang for the buck.