A tale of two Interns

[Sonsey@mac.com]

Ok, this is a cautionary tale for all of those "starting out" - especially those who post the inevitable "How do I apply for an internship/runner/first job?" questions. Below are two emails (only the names and details removed to protect the innocent) I received recently.

First:

Date: August 23, 2010 1:09:33 PM EDT
Subject: Job Opportunities

Hello,

My name is ******** and I am a sound engineer in *****. I am currently looking for job opportunities. I came across your website and thought the work you are doing would be a great fit for me. I have had a chance to work on some voice over work when I lived in ****** and I really enjoyed the work. If there is anything available I would like to hear about it. If there is nothing available, maybe I can stop by when you have some time so I can check out more of what you are doing. I would really appreciate the chance to learn.

I have attached my resume and a link to some of the work i have done. I look forward to hearing back from you. Thanks for your time and consideration.

********,
(phone number)
(website)

Second:


Date: August 31, 2010 6:39:53 PM EDT
Subject: hi

hey my name is ******** and i was wanting a career in audio recording. and i would like to get a job from you so i can get to know what i am doing in this career i have a little back ground in the recording section but that is at home and i am using sony tools.

well email me back or u can contact me at (phone #)

i would like to

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No spelling, grammar or typography have been changed, only names, places and phone #'s removed.

Now guess which one got an interview? To all the folks who are coming out of recording school this season, please remember, you are applying for a JOB at a BUSINESS - and this is your first impression. Make it a good one.

**For those of you who haven't figured it out, it was the first one. If you don't know WHY then you may want to figure out the difference before you start applying.

[neilwilkes]

Can I please ask if you had actually advertised the position?
One thing that gets me going is the sheer number of unsolicited applications we get that begin
"I wish to apply for the position of ......." when there is no position available or advertised. Then I read in the papers about how people are applying for "hundreds of jobs" but getting nowhere.
Not too surprising when you consider that most of the "applications" are probably for non existent positions in the first place.

Having said that, we did take on one person who applied cold, but his mail was very different - so much so we called him in for an interview & hired him on the spot. If all goes as well as it seems to, we will also employ him permanently once he graduates on a paid position.

[Lipflap]

I teach at two film schools. Both schools do a decent job of preparing students for entry level jobs in the film industry, and both teach the essentials of filmmaking, storytelling and cinema history. However, I've yet to work in a film school that adequately prepares students to find a job. The vast majority of my students don't know how to write a business letter or how to plan for and participate in an interview. Few have the skills necessary to know when to talk and when to stay quiet, and virtually no one knows about follow-up letters or other such courtesies.

Oh, what a bonus for the students if they could participate in a short seminar with someone from the business school, who could teach them some of the realities of the business world. And it wouldn't hurt if youngsters would take high school English a bit more seriously.

[mikevarela]

The second letter sounds like a recent immigration from India... I see that type of mistaken spelling all the time on the forums, usually it's because of ESL. However, communication is key - especially in a client driven business.

I always got the impression that my fellow students thought the industry was chill (wink) and thus treated the discourse with a heavy dose of blaze (French Pronunciation).

I also found that anything that could separate me from the competition was helpful, so I always bit my tongue and made personal notes.

Now, if only there were more work!!!

[kk@jamsync.com]

I especially love the ones that begin:

"Dear Mr. Proffitt,

I've researched your studio and determined that it is one that would be appropriate for my skills. I'm a Certified Pro Tools Operator..."

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by mikevarela

The second letter sounds like a recent immigration from India... I see that type of mistaken spelling all the time on the forums, usually it's because of ESL.

I wish. I get faxes and emails like this all the time, mostly from the 310 and 818. This is the kind of "writing" that kids fall into when 99% of the "writing" they do is with their thumbs on a phone.

[mikevarela]

hahah, true. Can you imagine... applying for a job via smart phone keyboard.


"I'm keeping this short 'cause I'm on my crackberry. OMG, The job looks dope, I'm in if you are"

[Sonsey@mac.com]

Originally Posted by neilwilkes

Can I please ask if you had actually advertised the position?
One thing that gets me going is the sheer number of unsolicited applications we get that begin
"I wish to apply for the position of ......." when there is no position available or advertised. Then I read in the papers about how people are applying for "hundreds of jobs" but getting nowhere.
Not too surprising when you consider that most of the "applications" are probably for non existent positions in the first place.

Having said that, we did take on one person who applied cold, but his mail was very different - so much so we called him in for an interview & hired him on the spot. If all goes as well as it seems to, we will also employ him permanently once he graduates on a paid position.

The position is not exactly advertised. It is, however, fairly well known to the various institutions around town that we do offer an internship position, so I usually receive a number of these around spring and this time of year. These two just lept off the page as examples of both ends of the spectrum in close proximity to each other.

If nothing else I hope this will be an example to the hundreds/thousands of students who are preparing letters to studios as they graduate. Remember these key points in a cover letter or email:

Be Polite.
Be Well Spoken.
Tell me who you are and how you found me.
Tell me what you want briefly and quickly.
Don't waste my time telling me how wonderful you are and how great your skills are - that's what CV's and interviews are for - if I want more I'll ask.
Be honest - snow jobs won't fool anyone worth fooling.

Remember guys and gals, you MAY be the best thing to happen to the industry since ProTools, but you still have to PROVE that to the rest of the world, and the best way to do that is to be polite, well spoken, humble and respectful.

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by mikevarela

The second letter sounds like a recent immigration from India... I see that type of mistaken spelling all the time on the forums, usually it's because of ESL. However, communication is key - especially in a client driven business.

I always got the impression that my fellow students thought the industry was chill (wink) and thus treated the discourse with a heavy dose of blaze (French Pronunciation).

I also found that anything that could separate me from the competition was helpful, so I always bit my tongue and made personal notes.

Now, if only there were more work!!!

I think the usage of "u" in place of "you" looks like the applicant did know the language but allowed text-messaging shorthand into a formal communication.

In my experience, most ESL speakers have FAR better English skills than most native speakers.

[davidconn]

This is a very interesting thread being a hopeful intern myself. It is a shame that universities/schools don't spend more time helping students with job application technique and I can feel the frustration myself, but threads like this are an eye opener in terms of the sheer spectrum of potential candidates and definitely help me discover what you guys are really after in an intern. It seems that just basic common sense, professionalism and a touch of humility go much further whats on paper, am I wrong?

I was pretty naive to think in college that taking an audio degree for three years would be enough to find me work; in fact, that now seems like the easy part.

Anyway cheers for the advice, maybe one of your nuggets of information will be all it takes for someone to give me a chance! Ha.

[minister]

Originally Posted by mikevarela

The second letter sounds like a recent immigration from India... I see that type of mistaken spelling all the time on the forums, usually it's because of ESL. However, communication is key - especially in a client driven business.

Not necessarily ESL. Many people who grew up in the U.S. never learned anything in school, or were not taught properly. It is amazing.

Originally Posted by mikevarela

I always got the impression that my fellow students thought the industry was chill (wink) and thus treated the discourse with a heavy dose of blaze (French Pronunciation).

Spelled, blasé. Blaze is what a fire does.

Originally Posted by mikevarela

I also found that anything that could separate me from the competition was helpful, so I always bit my tongue and made personal notes.

Always "held my tongue", seems a much better expression.

Personal notes are a big no-no. Making notes, however, is encouraged.

[eighttwelve]

Originally Posted by davidconn

This is a very interesting thread being a hopeful intern myself. It is a shame that universities/schools don't spend more time helping students with job application technique and I can feel the frustration myself, but threads like this are an eye opener in terms of the sheer spectrum of potential candidates and definitely help me discover what you guys are really after in an intern. It seems that just basic common sense, professionalism and a touch of humility go much further whats on paper, am I wrong?

I was pretty naive to think in college that taking an audio degree for three years would be enough to find me work; in fact, that now seems like the easy part.

Anyway cheers for the advice, maybe one of your nuggets of information will be all it takes for someone to give me a chance! Ha.

I'm in exactly the same position. For all you guys now in the field, how did you guys get into post-production or music, and how do you advise us new to the field? The only real impression I've gotten from my experience at my school is that my future lies in freelance where I can do the entire sound process for an entire production. Hopefully, I will ride the coattails of a talented director and follow his projects as lead sound designer from there, haha.

[neilwilkes]

Originally Posted by kk@jamsync.com

I especially love the ones that begin:

"Dear Mr. Proffitt,

I've researched your studio and determined that it is one that would be appropriate for my skills. I'm a Certified Pro Tools Operator..."

[Thomas W. Bethe]

I just went through the opposite problem.

I was looking for a part time videographer and editor. The ad we posted on Craigs list was very specific about the job and what I wanted from a prospective employee. I got about 32 replies to my ad. Some of the people applying were as far away as California. (we are in Ohio). Some of them were very well written some not so well written. Most sent resumes with the email. I called a couple of the people who I thought understood that I was seeking a part timer. The first person I talked to was very nice and I was impressed with his resume and as we started to talk I could hear from his voice that he was very anxious to get the job. We talked more and I put him on my call back list. The next person was somewhat different. The first words out of his mouth, after I had introduced myself and the reason for the call, were so how much over $80,000 does this job pay and what are the benefits and how many weeks do I get every year for vacation. At that point I thanked him very much for his time and hung up. I guess I would have been more impressed if he told me what he could do for my company before finding out how much he was being paid and "all about" the benefit package. The rest of the phone calls were interspersed with lots of questions, some questioned what the job really entailed and how much time commitment was needed and some were so busy telling me about their "achievements" that I could not get a word in edge wise. One person was so excited that someone had called him that he blabbered on for 20 minutes before I could say anything. He turned out to be really nice but just really frustrated that his job search was taking so long. He too made it on to my call back list.

The ad clearly stated that this was a part time position with 20 to 30 hours per week work load. There was no mention of a full time job and the only thing I was searching for was someone with FCP and Photoshop experience with the ability to shoot, edit, and burn the project on to a DVD. I don't think I was asking for anything that was unobtainable but after reading 32 resumes and talking to a number of potential employees I was simply stunned that many of them were applying for a non existent job and had only seen the words Videographer and Editor and read no further before contacting me.

As to interns...

If you are applying for a paid internship here then...

1. Write in colloquial English at a minimum of a junior high level.
2. Actually apply for the job that is posted instead of a general purpose cover letter.
3. Don't write in text speak and use a spell checker before you send off your cover letter and resume.
4. Be honest with your expectations for the internship and tell me why you want to work here.
5. Don't tell me you are a "pro" at FCP if you do not know how to take a project from start to finish including how to burn a DVD of the project. If you don't know anything I may still want to hire you BUT if you tell me that you know FCP, Adobe After Effects, Photoshop and Smoke and then you come and you cannot figure out how to do even the simplest things in FCP or any of the other programs you are basically wasting my time.
6. If you do get an interview show up on time and have your demo reel ready to view.
7. Wear clothing appropriate for an interview and don't show up in cut offs with sandals and looking like you just got out of bed.
8. Be ready to answer questions and give me a listing of your references. Don't tell me that you forgot the reference list or your demo reel as that is a big turn off.(I had one potential intern tell me that his demo reel was being updated and his dog ate his reference list. I basically told him that the excuses never worked for me in High School and the same thing applied here)
9. Ask me any questions you want to ask. Now is the time to do the asking. After I have explained the ground rules for interning here it is your chance to clarify anything you do not understand.
10. If you get the internship be on time, make yourself invaluable to the operation, learn as much as you can, have fun and when you leave remember not only what you were taught but the whole experience of being an intern so some time in the future when you hire an intern you can remember how it felt to be in the interviewees seat.

Good topic!!!

[RTR]

Originally Posted by Sonsey@mac.com

The position is not exactly advertised. It is, however, fairly well known to the various institutions around town that we do offer an internship position, so I usually receive a number of these around spring and this time of year. These two just lept off the page as examples of both ends of the spectrum in close proximity to each other.

If nothing else I hope this will be an example to the hundreds/thousands of students who are preparing letters to studios as they graduate. Remember these key points in a cover letter or email:

Be Polite.
Be Well Spoken.
Tell me who you are and how you found me.
Tell me what you want briefly and quickly.
Don't waste my time telling me how wonderful you are and how great your skills are - that's what CV's and interviews are for - if I want more I'll ask.
Be honest - snow jobs won't fool anyone worth fooling.

Remember guys and gals, you MAY be the best thing to happen to the industry since ProTools, but you still have to PROVE that to the rest of the world, and the best way to do that is to be polite, well spoken, humble and respectful.

I cant believe people send messages like that, I would have ate Sh*t for a mile to have a chance to intern years ago, you think people would take their time and proof read everything before sending it out to the person that can make or brake their career before it even starts!

[Sonsey@mac.com]

Originally Posted by eighttwelve

I'm in exactly the same position. For all you guys now in the field, how did you guys get into post-production or music, and how do you advise us new to the field? The only real impression I've gotten from my experience at my school is that my future lies in freelance where I can do the entire sound process for an entire production. Hopefully, I will ride the coattails of a talented director and follow his projects as lead sound designer from there, haha.

For both of you, there is no easy way in. If you want it enough it will find you eventually. Keep knocking on doors, and be polite, professional and courteous. Take every opportunity that comes your way that will help you grow. Be prepared to be taken advantage of at least once. Learn from your mistakes.

I spent 10 years working music retail and interning, assisting and generally taking every opportunity I could find to increase my professional capacity, before someone took a chance and gave me a full time gig. I worked my a$$ off when I got there. The only secret to "success" is to not stop trying. And while I'm sure to the younger I seem to have "made it", let me assure you, I still have many, many miles to go. It will never stop.

If all that doesn't scare you off, you might have a career yet!

[Frank S.]

I recently received 3 emails for an internship position where the resumes included absolutely no contact information at all. Two of them didn't even have their names on them! There were a number of other issues as well, but really...how do you not have your NAME on your resume!

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by Frank S.

I recently received 3 emails for an internship position where the resumes included absolutely no contact information at all. Two of them didn't even have their names on them! There were a number of other issues as well, but really...how do you not have your NAME on your resume!

I don't know where these students are learning how to write resumes but some of them are almost laughable. Spelling and grammar mistakes and no return address, no email address and no phone number sooooooooooooo how are you suppose to contract them to ask questions or to schedule an interview??? Some one should start a thread on GS about interning and getting hired.

[Bill@AudioVision]

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

I don't know where these students are learning how to write resumes but some of them are almost laughable.

That's it exactly, they're not. You might spend a 1-2 days, maybe, on resume writing in a high school English class, if you don't ditch. In a recording school, they'll pass out an example, and everyone copies it. I know, I seen several very similar resumes arrive in my in-box within a week of each other.
I'm married to a member of the public education system, and I'm appalled at how poorly kids today are prepared to just survive in the mean, cruel world. In California at least, it's all about the test scores. Who cares if they actually learn something - as long as the test scores go up. They can't fill out a simple medical insurance form. They can't write a college application cover letter without butchering the language. The whole education system is broken, run by people (school boards) who have rarely taught a day in their life.
And don't get me started on what technology has done to perpetuate all this. Texting answers, cellphone photos of copied tests, school computer systems hackers. It's scary, they're "getting" good grades, but they learned... what? Do you want to go to a heart surgeon that went though school this way? Or have someone on your staff grab a copy of the latest A Title project to share with friends?

[kronos78]

Also, applicants should have a normal E-mail address. I once received a resume and cover letter that kept me interested until the applicant ruined it by including his E-mail address: ladyballer69@***.com.

It's kept me laughing ever since but the resume went right into the trash can.

[djgizmo]

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

I don't know where these students are learning how to write resumes but some of them are almost laughable. Spelling and grammar mistakes and no return address, no email address and no phone number sooooooooooooo how are you suppose to contract them to ask questions or to schedule an interview??? Some one should start a thread on GS about interning and getting hired.

Amen.

I guess I can consider myself lucky as my instructors (I won't name the school) went through our resumes with a fine tooth comb on a one on one basis.

While I'm nervous about the actual approach, I feel pretty darn good about my resume. (at this point)

[sonnykeyes]

The most worrisome part is that it speaks to their problem-solving skills. If I'm embarking on a project (such as writing a resume) that I have no previous experience with, I will always begin with research: internet research as well as asking friends, relatives and teachers about their experience with doing that type of project.

When I get a resume like Sonsey's #2, it tells me that this person is either too afraid or too lazy to ask anyone for help with something they don't understand. How will that attitude translate when they're confronted by an unfamiliar studio situation? I already know the answer.

Sonny Keyes
Ricochet Audio
Toronto

[JoeMilner]

I just received a resumé made with Apple's Pages software (part of iWork I guess?).
Why send me a resumé I can't even open??????
It's called a .pdf: Learn it. Know it. Live it.

[soundfx]

In this day and age of ultimate information availability, if a person is too stupid/lazy to be able to at least use the internet to learn how to write a proper resume and to use proper English, then they are certainly too stupid/lazy to be a useful intern. Darwin wins. Next.

[Bill@AudioVision]

On the other hand, I just received in the mail (remember that?) a very nicely done resume. It was personally addressed - not to "Studio Owner". It was in a clean pocket folder, sent with enough postage, with a signed cover letter, a resume and a CD of student projects. It was clear, concise and had all the information needed. Not overly boastful, but the sender did indicate skills and abilities, degree earned - actually two, and professional desires. Words were spelled correctly and he clearly took some time to put it together.
I will at least contact him to compliment him on the resume. I don't have anything right now for him, but I'll ask that he should stay in touch from time to time. This is first one like this I've seen in a very long time.
I get better looking materials from Janitorial companies.