issues in ADR - opinions are needed!

[vandahl]

Hi folks, I am putting together a publication about ADR, and wanted to get your opinions on a few topics. It's quite likely that we do things a little differently over here in Montreal compared to NYC or LA (it's probably because we speak French and crave attention )

Here are the topics I will need your help with:

1. Compression
2. Fader riding
3. The Mic and Bus setup

Please mention if this applies to foley as well. I propose my answers below. Your contributions, corrections and criticisms will be greatly appreciated!

1. Compression
...at this stage compression is used only to restrain the signal from the sudden rises and bursts of human speech. The goal is to obtain a clean and balanced take, therefore after choosing fairly conservative settings the compressor should be left alone.
“Conservative” depends on the material. If this is going to be a horror movie or animation, compression ratios are higher and thresholds are lower; for a romantic movie or when there is a lot of conversational dialogue it is the reverse. I like to use two compressors: an analogue compressor after the mic preamp, and a software compressor just before printing the track. The first one allows me to level out sudden rises in the voice, and the second one limits the possibility of clipping. If I have to use only one, the I will insert it between my input channel before bussing it out to track, as in the Mic and Bus setup described below.

2. Fader riding
In dialogue recording for dubbing or ADR the input gain will vary constantly not only with each actor, but also with the same actor depending on the scene. Human speech is very dynamic, and dubbing actors tend to be more expressive during a performance than during an ordinary conversation.
As a starting point, ask the actor to give you an example of the voice they are going to use so that you can set your gain. During a loop you may have to do some fader riding to compensate for lower level detail such as breathing, but if you set your gain correctly at the start you shouldn’t have to move more than 3 dB in either direction. To ride the faders more than that will result in audible dips and boosts that will need to be corrected down the line.

3. The Mic and Bus setup

This technique is used to give the ADR recordist flexibility right at the fingertips. Consider this signal flow diagram:

[input gain] > [mic fader] > [compressor] > [bus fader]

In this scenario, the mic fader is used to set the overall level and determines how much signal goes to the compressor. The actual riding - or fine-tuning - before printing the track is done on the bus fader. This method is used when speed is of the essence because it affords control over a wide dynamic range without requiring the recordist to constantly reach over for the mic gain pot or to fiddle with compression settings.

[ErikG]

Personally I do NOT want the ADR recordist to apply any processing/EQ.
Even if this will expose a less than optimum recording booth/studio.

This for me includes anything but a possibly a hipass filter set no higher than 70Hz. A 70 Hz filter can be used if needed to control any rumble issues if there are any.

If you want to have some signal control while recording please only do that in the playback chain.

Also please avoid excessive fader riding unless absolutely needed.
Any gain control should be handled at 5the mic stage whenever possible.

'My two swedish kronas

[ggegan]

Originally Posted by ErikG

Personally I do NOT want the ADR recordist to apply any processing/EQ.
Even if this will expose a less than optimum recording booth/studio.

This for me includes anything but a possibly a hipass filter set no higher than 70Hz. A 70 Hz filter can be used if needed to control any rumble issues if there are any.

If you want to have some signal control while recording please only do that in the playback chain.

Also please avoid excessive fader riding unless absolutely needed.
Any gain control should be handled at 5the mic stage whenever possible.

'My two swedish kronas

+1

There is so much that can be accomplished with mic choice, mic placement and the actor's performance. That should be the primary focus of the ADR mixer. You can't always comment directly about performance, but there are often ways to get the actor to make adjustments without pissing off the director.

[Henchman]

I'm in agreeance.
no processing at all
ESPECIALLY compression.

[RecRoom]

I've never used compression while recording ADR and never will. Much more importance should be placed on the mic and the mic position to achieve a good match to production audio.

[vandahl]

Originally Posted by RecRoom

I've never used compression while recording ADR and never will. Much more importance should be placed on the mic and the mic position to achieve a good match to production audio.

What about when you don't have to match production audio, as in a feature-length animation for example? If you have expensive talent booked for a couple of hours and they're temperamental and you want to avoid clipping, would that not warrant at least some judicious use of compression? Though I suppose that at 24 bits there is ample headroom...

[RecRoom]

Recording for animation isn't the same as ADR. Different tools for different jobs.

Generally, I set up multiple mics at varying distances from the talent when doing animation. If the close one distorts most likely the farther one won't. Then, perhaps some VERY light compression would be in order.

A studio I used to work at once recorded Robin Williams for an animated feature. I believe they setup at least 4 separate mics to make sure they captured everything.

[Jfriah]

Yep--ADR mixer = getting the proper SOUND and technically correct recording. Editor and mixer down the line deal with tweaking and reducing and compressing and...

As to performance: yes, in situations where the director is there--that's what he/she is there for. You're the eyes and ears and sync-checker. But, you know, from time to time you simply might blow a take or distort or forget to record or go out too early and...geez, you know you might need another reading of it / another take... IF you get my drift.

Just don't pull that one too often or they'll think you're incompetent.

My psychology major helps feel out when it is time to 'blow a take'...

And, yes, there are technical issues you can 'mention' in terms of the line delivery. "in order to match the original delivery", without saying "can you try it more...."

Compression and EQ/processing---I agree: although, I do use light compression and give myself headroom while still having good S:N. And have been known to notch out 16kHz if there is a TV monitor running because I know sometimes down the line that stuff doesn't get noticed...

As for fader-riding-- you have to think of it as 'what would the location mixer do'? In a way, it is 'similar' to compression if you're riding around words/syllables and miss/fudge something... Best to set it 'n' forget it if you have headroom and clean lines. My opinion.

Jeff

[ggegan]

Regarding the set-it-and-forget-it approach, because of the dynamic and sometimes unpredictable nature of some actors' performances, you can set what you think is a healthy, yet safe level, and then out of nowhere you get hit with something so hot that it is irretrievably clipped. I used to be pretty good at seeing it coming, but I found myself guessing wrong on occasion and ducking the level when there was no need to, which makes for a less than ideal recording. A different solution is to use two identical side-by-side (coincident) mics in tandem, but one having a 10dB in-line pad for a back-up safety recording. You record them to different channels and if you get surprised by a transient that is too hot on the normal mic, the padded mic will generally be fine. This technique allows you to record at a healthy level while reducing the need for ducking or riding the fader to deal with unexpected transients. This also works well for recording unpredictable sound fx (like dog barks).

[Jfriah]

+1 --nice, I've done that before, or just setting up a bus to another channel pulled down a bit.

Jeff

[nathand]

Originally Posted by Jfriah

+1 --nice, I've done that before, or just setting up a bus to another channel pulled down a bit.

Jeff

That won't help if the mic overloaded the mic pre or if the mic itself couldn't hack it.

[PoxyMusic]

Originally Posted by nathand

That won't help if the mic overloaded the mic pre or if the mic itself couldn't hack it.

While recording Character Voices for a game recently, I added a second "scream mic" which was three inches back, angled about 20 degrees away from the talent.

Those 3 inches make quite a difference.

[Jfriah]

Originally Posted by nathand

That won't help if the mic overloaded the mic pre or if the mic itself couldn't hack it.

Very true. Got burned today in fact on some set pre-records not knowing what the actor was going to do from line to line. Mic peaked out. I just went again, no biggie. But yes it can be a 'concern' for sure.

Nice point.

Jeff