PT Export Pull Up/Down

[stangroom]

Has anyone out there been using the "Export Regions as Files…" for any pull up/down work?

The other day we had to take a 29.97fps mix and pull down for 24fps film, however if you go into the "Export Regions as Files…" and choose the sample rate Pull Up/Down option of NTSC to Film, it pulls it UP to 48048kHz. This means that when we ADD it into a 24fps session (yes I know the time code rate doesn't actually change anything in PT) it plays back 0.1% slower, instead of faster.

So, in order for us to sync with the 24fps picture that we were conforming to, we had to choose the 47952kHz Film to NTSC option. It's just confusing because I feel like Digi/Avid's labelling of these pull up/down options is backwards.

Any other thoughts out there? Am I crazy ?!?! (It's possible )

[JSt0rm]

i think you have this backwards...

24fps or 30fps is .01% faster then 29.976 and 23.98

So you wanted a pull up and thats exactly what you did.

[Jeff Hayat]

Hello

What JSt0rm says is correct.

Originally Posted by stangroom

.....we had to take a 29.97fps mix and pull down for 24fps film...

No - if it is at 29.97, that IS pulled down.

You don't pull down from 29.97 to 24.

You pull down from 24 > 23.98
You pull down from 30 > 29.97

Cheers.

[apple-q]

Originally Posted by JSt0rm

i think you have this backwards...

24fps or 30fps is .01% faster then 29.976 and 23.98

So you wanted a pull up and thats exactly what you did.

It's 0.1%

[stangroom]

Aight, here's where the confusion was introduced:

29.97 mix file -> "Export Regions as Files…" -> Selected 48k Pull Up 0.1% (NTSC to Film). This created a new file that was 48048kHz.

Import Audio/Select 48048 File -> ADD to ProTools session. ProTools then warns you that the file will play back at the wrong speed, hit OK. The resulting "24fps" file in ProTools ends up being LONGER than our 29.97 Mix file. Someone showed me this setup a few years back and no wonder it was so confusing…

IT'S WRONG!!!

I have since, taken my original mix file and Imported it with SRC as a 0.1% Pull Up, and it is PERFECT!

Sorry for the confusion, and thanks so much for helping solidify my understanding of Pull Up/Down now.

[dwaynedelario]

Originally Posted by stangroom

Aight, here's where the confusion was introduced:

Import Audio/Select 48048 File -> ADD to ProTools session. ProTools then warns you that the file will play back at the wrong speed, hit OK. The resulting "24fps" file in ProTools ends up being LONGER than our 29.97 Mix file. Someone showed me this setup a few years back and no wonder it was so confusing…
.

I think your biggest mistake here is your terminology: sample rate and frame rate are not interchangeable idioms i.e there is no such thing as a 29.97fps or 24fps audio file, only 47.052, 48, 48.048 etc. However, the relation of how the former is synced/recorded to the latter is crucial.

A sample rate converted pull-up or pull-down will naturally be a different length than the original. Jeff Hyatt is correct in that we pull-down a 48k file to match video speed (29.97fps). If your master was recorded at 48k, 29.97 with pull-down enabled, then you would have to pull it up to match a film speed session... which is what you did so it seems to have worked out.

Best way to think of it is in terms of Original Session and Destination session. What are the video and audio timecode rates for each one? If you think about it this way, it's always easy to go into your destination session and import accordingly. Hope this helps.

-J

[JSt0rm]

Originally Posted by apple-q

It's 0.1%

yes my bad!

[stangroom]

Originally Posted by dwaynedelario

I think your biggest mistake here is your terminology: sample rate and frame rate are not interchangeable idioms

Hey J, yes sorry my terminology may have come across a bit confusing, but I wasn't intending to suggest that files are actually embedded with frame rates. Just using frame rate as a reference of which file I was dealing with.

The big problem was the exporting w/ pull up & then re-importing. It unfortunately does the opposite of what is actually correct (feel free to try it). Importing the original mix with the SRC pull up/down conversion is the correct way to get the file I need back into ProTools.

NOTE: This was a film that consisted purely of still images transitioning back and forth, so there was no native frame rate except the 29.97 the picture editor decided to work in. So the pull up to 24fps should have been simple, if I hadn't used the ProTools export option.

Thanks everyone for the help and clarification. Rock!