Young Post Professionals and Pro Tools

[londontown]

Imho....Key commands generally reach a point where your brain and thought processes aren't necessarily quick enough to think ahead enough steps to maintain the pace, so there's a limit to be hit.

In general (not as a rule but quite often) the session files I've received from people who were superfast etc. were untidier, missing elements, less well labelled, whatever. Sure, a Ferrari can probably hit 180mph but if you drive it at that speed all the time, you'll probably get a few more dings in the paint than most, not to mention pissing off people who can't attain those speeds. And you piss enough people off, word gets around, and no matter how good you are you won't get work. The end IS more important than the means...

As someone who works with a lot of sound and music editors I think the most coveted skills amongst those who make the hiring decisions are;

a) quiet unfailing competence and reliability (technical ability with the software wrapped into this)

and

b) political astuteness. By that I mean knowing how to gauge and read the various players in the game and what's right (not necessarily correct, but what's right) to say at what time. And thereby not coming off as an asshole.

B) generally outweighs A). Most of the pros are expert in B and it's only experience (in all walks of life) that teaches that.

[Smallbudgetguru]

+1 to competence and reliability

+1 to political astuteness

[philper]

Originally Posted by londontown

Imho....Key commands generally reach a point where your brain and thought processes aren't necessarily quick enough to think ahead enough steps to maintain the pace, so there's a limit to be hit.

In general (not as a rule but quite often) the session files I've received from people who were superfast etc. were untidier, missing elements, less well labelled, whatever. Sure, a Ferrari can probably hit 180mph but if you drive it at that speed all the time, you'll probably get a few more dings in the paint than most, not to mention pissing off people who can't attain those speeds. And you piss enough people off, word gets around, and no matter how good you are you won't get work. The end IS more important than the means...

As someone who works with a lot of sound and music editors I think the most coveted skills amongst those who make the hiring decisions are;

a) quiet unfailing competence and reliability (technical ability with the software wrapped into this)

and

b) political astuteness. By that I mean knowing how to gauge and read the various players in the game and what's right (not necessarily correct, but what's right) to say at what time. And thereby not coming off as an asshole.

B) generally outweighs A). Most of the pros are expert in B and it's only experience (in all walks of life) that teaches that.

I think there is also a "C": talent and ability to "get inside" the film and the filmmaker's head to deliver what is wanted/needed for the project. Most editors I know who work a lot mostly have B going on, absolutely have C and A may or may not be a factor above a somewhat rudimentary level (as long as they are willing to ask for help when they need it). Speed isn't much good if the cutter has headed off in the wrong direction aesthetically and has to do work over.

phil p

[Rick Sanchez]

For editing..designing your own shortcuts is wonderful. Avid users as well as Final Cut users have had that option for years. They can easily store them as user settings and take them with them when they switch rooms or facilities. There have always been some issues with corruption when moving your settings cross platform or software version, but generally it works very well.

Unfortunately, ProTools has never really implemented keyboard mapping so editors have just learned to live with it. If you always work on your own system and want to remap..go for it. The problem comes up when you are forced to work on a different system and you can't easily import your own settings or if another editor needs to use your system.

For mixing...It's never bothered me.

Such is life.

[Jfriah]

Short and sweet here:

I'm constantly using different methods, F-keys, keycommands, mouse clicks (rarely menu pulls) based on where my hands/cursor are at the time, so...

not hard-tied to any methods per se.

Jeff

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by macaholic

Also I think you might do better to try not to come across as quite so insulting to guys that MIGHT be able to offer you some GREAT education...

I remember one of the guys who was interning here say, "yeah, I've pretty much mastered Pro Tools"... my initial reaction was "wow, and I've been using it 13 years and I STILL am learning new stuff."

A little humility goes a long way with people you consider to be a mentor. Learn from their years of experience... I learn new stuff all the time from our younger staff, BUT it is a two way street...

Also do yourself a favor and buy John's book... it is a "must have" for any aspiring editors library

Mastering a craft, and mastering a tool are VERY different things-

if you are going to master one- get the craft underfoot first- then 10 years later, you worry about the tool.

[toolskid]

Originally Posted by SurveillanceP

To continue:
Who presses the W button? Do you use it often? Q (centre screen on edit selection start) is more arguably useful, but how often do you use that? If your hand hovers over that area of the keyboard, do you ever hit E by mistake and explode a waveform you didn't want?

If you switch between turning smart tool on and off, has it not struck you that pressing Apple+7 is a stupidly inconveniently spaced hotkey?

Why is it that we receive a colour coded keyboard with icons on it and hard wired shortcuts, and think ourselves lucky, even though it wastes our time and constantly breaks our communion with the source material?

Put in the work - the key commands are actually in VERY useful places for very speedy workflow - the smart tool is NOT compatible with most fast workflow operations (some exceptions include dealing with elastic audio editing and shuffle/timestretch across whole sessions etc...) I do use it but much more often I do not...

When you get the muscle memory for flicking up and down across the F keys you'll be amazed at the speed you can achieve.

I have to say that I find protools keycommand stickers to be a drag on workflow rather than a boon!!!

Good luck - feel free to PM me if you want some detailed discussion on this.

Best

[Patch Morrison]

The re-recording mixers I have been fortunate enough to watch at work have never been anywhere near a keyboard. Said device is usually located down at the far end of the console where the Pro Tools operator is sitting.

[Jfriah]

<---absolutely despise the multi-tool/smart-tool.

But then again, I don't work on tracks large enough to gain use properly and I've always found I hate 'putting the cursor exactly in this ballpark in order to...'.

That's just me.

Ah yes...the mysterious 'pro tools operator' working the mouse and keyboard...

Jeff

[Jussi]

Ha! I share the multi-tool hatred, makes it all so very confusing. +1 for the tool lock option btw!

[Wolf2007]

A bit of a low-fi route - and probably not answering the original philosophical point - but the x keys is a reasonable solution.



84 programmable keys that can have single or multiple strings of keys assigned, multiple units can be used on the same system, not massively expensive.

Key legends to go under the clear caps are easily made with any printer.

Most important of all is that it is easily transportable between different systems so you can take it with you between rooms/studios and use it alongside the existing keyboard.

[RScott]

After 4 years in audio post (after 3 years of using PT in school) I have to say that there's not a single day that I don't learn something or have a new revelation about my workflow, my mechanics, my creativity in the audio world, etc. etc. IMO this is just one of those professions where there is so much to learn that you will just learn and learn and learn until the day you stop editing/mixing.

So, my goal is to improve my own workflow and style and learn as much as I can from others in the field. So if there is something that streamlines the way I do something that is good and it's one of about a million steps in the right direction to my many goals.

But I think it is a mistake to give that one step more value than it's worth. And certainly be careful about how you want to engage others on their own style and how important these things should be to them -- especially if they are your colleagues and are your senior.

Everyone here has responded in one of a few ways:
1) There are other things to be concerned with that may be more important -- obviously everyone is coming from a slightly different place, but most of the things mentioned are important at some stage.
2) Be mindful of how you tackle the social side of this whole back-and-forth.

So my advice is to improve your own style and focus on goals that are important to you. This you can almost certainly do as a solo activity without any social or professional risk. So in the solo arena, I am 100% for you tackling custom key settings and improving your focus on the edit.

I'd avoid things that skirt the lines of trying to fix problems with other people. I know this is not your goal, but it can come off that way and that is a bad bad spot to be in. As creative professionals, every editor and mixer has his own style and most will be defensive if they feel like their style is in critique. So, having others on the defense when you're the low rung on the totem pole can be bad news. There are other things that your mentors have to teach you from their years of learning stuff every day. So don't make them think twice about sharing that gold mine with you over a hotkey debate.



Just for the record, I am eagerly awaiting the day when I can mix from the Avid implants in my frontal lobe. Even with current Digi/Avid technology there are still huge improvements as you have cited in being better tools. But the tools enable us to create a mix. And creating a mix is a pretty old art. At the end of the day if it sounds good it is good.

[Jfriah]

Good postings Wolf and RScott-- but my finger-hand position sense memory would be lost with that board but mannnnnn I could think of a zillion (or at least 84) things to do with it!

RScott-- yeah good stuff: 'at the end of the day if it sounds good, it is good' and about 'playing along with others'.

I once had a situation where an editor/co-mixer came in, just happened to hear what I was working on and said something to the effect of "well that's not how I'd mix it...but whatever..." and then went into what he came to talk to me about originally.

Or: someone comes in and sees me working on something, watches over my shoulder, and harrumphs and reaches over and pushes a couple key commands. "There. I got tired of watching you flail."

I said "thanks but I was actually working backward a couple steps after an undo just to try something. I know that one and did it already."

Like you say: pick things up from others, by observation, or by reading/learning and trying to see if IT works for YOU. There is no right/wrong way to get to the same result. There may be a 'faster' way but is it better? Inherently better? How--it's just electronics after all. Does it give you more time for something else? Great.

Paintbrush, airbrush, throw a bucket of paint at a wall. It all gets the wall painted.

Crude but, you see the point. And, yes, don't ever try to 'convert' someone. There's a reason we're not all automatons.

Ok, some of us.... brrrrzzt...beeeeeeeeep, brrrrrrrrzzzzt.


Jeff

[SurveillanceP]

I love hearing about other peoples workflows and tricks. There must be an infinite number of good ways to skin this audio cat (ok weird image).

About 6 months ago I made a commitment to myself (and to my boss) that in twenty, thirty years my workflow would still be evolving. Info and opinions from sources outside my work are very precious to me in that they make me rethink it all.

Someone showed me a Nostramus today and apparently some people edit with it! I can see how that would work though.

Will vibration force astronauts to use handheld units to control Orion? - Hyperbola