DVD audio encoding...

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by tom_lowe

Granted, but I only said .dtshd were lossless, nowhere did I say that plug-in enabled you to encode DTS HD as a .cpt file.

I had been told that Compressor would take a .DTSHD file with it's internal BluRay burning - sorry, I was wrong.
I'm fully aware DTS cpt files aren't lossless and I never claimed that was the case.

Out of curiosity, what was that 5.1 AAC for Quicktime thing you were mentioning? Can't see how that would help with BluRay?

It was an alternative for Thierry to get LPCM multichannel to HDMI out the DVi port. It would require the latest MBP and I'm not sure HDMI multichannel from AAC is supported out that port even with that...just a shot in the dark. HDMI with audio supported out the mini display port is a very new addition, so I haven't seen the fallout from it yet (and my MBP is just a 3.06 core 2 duo, so it's not the new version).

Re: " had been told that Compressor would take a .DTSHD file with it's internal BluRay burning - sorry, I was wrong. "

Yes, it doesn't do that...Compressor doesn't support AACS copy protection, either, so some players won't recognize the discs. I wish Apple wouldn't drag its feet on this subject, but they probably prefer streamed content anyway.

[tom_lowe]

Originally Posted by kk@jamsync.com

It was an alternative for Thierry to get LPCM multichannel to HDMI out the DVi port. It would require the latest MBP and I'm not sure HDMI multichannel from AAC is supported out that port even with that...just a shot in the dark. HDMI with audio supported out the DVI port is a very new addition, so I haven't seen the fallout from it yet (and my MBP is just a 3.06 core 2 duo, so it's not the new version).

Re: " had been told that Compressor would take a .DTSHD file with it's internal BluRay burning - sorry, I was wrong. "

Yes, it doesn't do that...Compressor doesn't support AACS copy protection, either, so some players won't recognize the discs. I wish Apple wouldn't drag its feet on this subject, but they probably prefer streamed content anyway.

The Mini DisplayPort connection on all new Macs will play multichannel audio from a QuickTime out of it. You just need a Mini DisplayPort to HDMI cable/converter. Make sure you don't go Mini DisplayPort -> DVI -> HDMI as you'll then lose the audio.

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by tom_lowe

The Mini DisplayPort connection on all new Macs will play multichannel audio from a QuickTime out of it. You just need a Mini DisplayPort to HDMI cable/converter. Make sure you don't go Mini DisplayPort -> DVI -> HDMI as you'll then lose the audio.

Ahh...that's the one I meant, brain fade on my part. You can go from the mini display port to DVI on an MBP, but there's also a different mini display port to HDMI cable. I have both...they do come in handy. I'll go back and fix that. Thanks for the heads up (I shouldn't answer these things when I'm half asleep...

On the older MBPs mini display port to HDMI apparently only supported video via HDMI, but the newer ones supposedly support audio as well.

So, if it actually works, and all you wanted was to have *something* that would show off your tracks in a live situation with a home theater setup, you could just bring along a new MBP with the mini display port to HDMI connector and make a multichannel AAC file as a .MOV.

Might work, but not as portable as a real BluRay disc, of course.

[GuySonic]

FWIW being a movie fan and audio professional (mic designer) always looking at the audio options in the newer BD releases finding that many are now offering DTS-HD audio with and without Dolby options. I am surprised by the number of releases offering ONLY DTS-HD audio finding this type of audio excellent and generally better quality over all other options at least when played on my Samsung disc player, even if only set for 2-channel stereo output.

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by GuySonic

FWIW being a movie fan and audio professional (mic designer) always looking at the audio options in the newer BD releases finding that many are now offering DTS-HD audio with and without Dolby options. I am surprised by the number of releases offering ONLY DTS-HD audio finding this type of audio excellent and generally better quality over all other options at least when played on my Samsung disc player, even if only set for 2-channel stereo output.

As far as sonic quality goes, both DTS-HD and TrueHD are equivalent at the highest level.
They have to be because a lossless codec is a lossless codec, and they are both lossless at their highest levels.

DTS-HD Master Audio, in my opinion, is a better option because their *lossy* codecs are better than Dolby's, so for many situations where HD "reconstituted uncompressed" audio is not an option, the lower level will sound better.

[neilwilkes]

Sorry guys - only just found time to get back here again.
For pure audio only in lossless, DVDA would do the job assuming that the player being used is DVD-A compatible.
Otherwise your sole option is Blu Ray.
Blu Ray gives you issues with compatibility - I know of no prosumer tools that can utilize either 5.1 LPCM or DTS-HD MAS or Dolby True HD - they are all either DTS core audio or Dolby Digital.

DVDA will do what you need all day long.
Oppo's excellent Universal players handle DVDA - we just ordered a couple of their BDP-83SE machines, although if HDMI has to be used the SE player is overkill as Oppo recommend you use the analogue outputs. The BDP-83 standard edition would do this, as would the BDP-80.

DVDA works like CD in it's most basic form. Graphical content is recommended, but far from necessary - especially if we are talking about a single record. You can even use Minnetonka audio's Disc Welder for this - assuming you are not running at 24/96 5.1, which has mandatory requirements for MLP Lossless (aka Dolby True HD these days) encoding to get the data rate where it needs to be.
MLP is a true lossless codec where the output is bit for bit identical to the input.
From the source files, I could do this in a couple of hours at the most.

Going back to Blu Ray & Dolby True HD, I am 99.9% certain the specs are misleading.
Only stereo "True HD" is actually mandatory, although 5.1 LPCM is supposed to be mandatory, but requires high end authoring.
Other issues with True HD is that there is a hidden DD stream in there, for players that cannot decode 5.1 True HD - although the end user may never realise as the HD light will remain lit despite DD playback.
DTS-HD MA is fully mandatory, as KK says, and again to back up what she has already stated, it includes a core audio stream too.
If source is at 24/96, then the core stream can also be DTS 9624 and the quality jump over DD is very audible.

[quadraphonics]

That, and the DTS-MA track will phase cancel the Uncompressed signal (I have done this multiple times).

Randall

Originally Posted by kk@jamsync.com

It's curious that he would prefer the uncompressed to DTS-HD MA, since that format offers "downwards" compatibility.

[quadraphonics]

Neil,

When you create a TrueHD stream, it actually creates a Second 640kbps AC-3 stream. It isn't really hidden.

Randall

Originally Posted by neilwilkes

Sorry guys - only just found time to get back here again.
For pure audio only in lossless, DVDA would do the job assuming that the player being used is DVD-A compatible.
Otherwise your sole option is Blu Ray.
Blu Ray gives you issues with compatibility - I know of no prosumer tools that can utilize either 5.1 LPCM or DTS-HD MAS or Dolby True HD - they are all either DTS core audio or Dolby Digital.

DVDA will do what you need all day long.
Oppo's excellent Universal players handle DVDA - we just ordered a couple of their BDP-83SE machines, although if HDMI has to be used the SE player is overkill as Oppo recommend you use the analogue outputs. The BDP-83 standard edition would do this, as would the BDP-80.

DVDA works like CD in it's most basic form. Graphical content is recommended, but far from necessary - especially if we are talking about a single record. You can even use Minnetonka audio's Disc Welder for this - assuming you are not running at 24/96 5.1, which has mandatory requirements for MLP Lossless (aka Dolby True HD these days) encoding to get the data rate where it needs to be.
MLP is a true lossless codec where the output is bit for bit identical to the input.
From the source files, I could do this in a couple of hours at the most.

Going back to Blu Ray & Dolby True HD, I am 99.9% certain the specs are misleading.
Only stereo "True HD" is actually mandatory, although 5.1 LPCM is supposed to be mandatory, but requires high end authoring.
Other issues with True HD is that there is a hidden DD stream in there, for players that cannot decode 5.1 True HD - although the end user may never realise as the HD light will remain lit despite DD playback.
DTS-HD MA is fully mandatory, as KK says, and again to back up what she has already stated, it includes a core audio stream too.
If source is at 24/96, then the core stream can also be DTS 9624 and the quality jump over DD is very audible.

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by quadraphonics

That, and the DTS-MA track will phase cancel the Uncompressed signal (I have done this multiple times).

Randall

Well, you wouldn't play both streams at the same time, but yeah, it's lossless, so naturally, it should cancel completely...otherwise it isn't lossless.

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by neilwilkes

So
Oppo's excellent Universal players handle DVDA - we just ordered a couple of their BDP-83SE machines, although if HDMI has to be used the SE player is overkill as Oppo recommend you use the analogue outputs. The BDP-83 standard edition would do this, as would the BDP-80.

Yep...totally agree about the Oppo. We added one also.

KK

[neilwilkes]

Originally Posted by quadraphonics

Neil,

When you create a TrueHD stream, it actually creates a Second 640kbps AC-3 stream. It isn't really hidden.

Randall

Point taken - sort of.
My understanding is that this second stream is not directly selectable though - AFAIK (and I may well be mistaken) to get the AC3 stream selectable you need to create a separate one entirely.
The point was simply that despite the True HD option being used, there are players out there that will access the 640 AC3, yet still have the True HD logo lit up misleading users into thinking they are hearing lossless audio.....
Or have I been misinformed?

[neilwilkes]

Originally Posted by kk@jamsync.com

Yep...totally agree about the Oppo. We added one also.

KK

I have found their support to be excellent as well.
We recently had problems with certain DVDA players freezing up on 16:9 DVDA titles, and Oppo researched this & found it was caused by a certain decoder chip. They then went much, much further & said that if we supply them with discs we are authoring they will guarantee compliance with their players, or if that is not possible, tell me where I screwed up the authoring.
You cannot get better than that!