High Freq. Screech on TV

[captainate]

I've been noticing more and more that during some VO's on various programs there's a high frequency screech in the background (like a sine wave, around 18k or so). I'm a young guy, and I've always had exceptional hearing, but I can't possibly be the only one bothered by this, right?

It's usually on the voice-overs, which is easy to spot when they cut back and forth:

Blah blah blah (screech) -- Cut to location sound (silent in HF) -- Blah blah (SCREECH)

But I've also heard it every now and then on cut scenes. So what's the deal? Are they just a bunch of old guys who can't hear it or does it appear after the mix/master stage? Where would it come from? God it bugs me to no end!!!

[jahtao]

COuld it be the PAL /NTSC line frequency bleeding into the system? QC should spot that really.

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by captainate

I've been noticing more and more that during some VO's on various programs there's a high frequency screech in the background (like a sine wave, around 18k or so). I'm a young guy, and I've always had exceptional hearing, but I can't possibly be the only one bothered by this, right?

It's usually on the voice-overs, which is easy to spot when they cut back and forth:

Blah blah blah (screech) -- Cut to location sound (silent in HF) -- Blah blah (SCREECH)

But I've also heard it every now and then on cut scenes. So what's the deal? Are they just a bunch of old guys who can't hear it or does it appear after the mix/master stage? Where would it come from? God it bugs me to no end!!!

Flyback transformer noise from studios still using CRTs. It's actually 15.734 kHz for NTSC.

[Kuba_Pietrzak]

If there is a CRT in the booth, everything you need is:

[danijel]

Originally Posted by captainate

Are they just a bunch of old guys who can't hear it or does it appear after the mix/master stage? Where would it come from? God it bugs me to no end!!!

Don't worry, it won't bother you for too long. I stopped hearing it a couple of years ago (and I'm 32). Thankfully, my editors still hear it, so it won't get to my session anyway

[Jfriah]

I, too, (can still...and I'm crossing another decade mark this year) hear this stuff all the time. My only comment is that it surprises me that it passes through edit, pre-mix, and mix even on feature films, etc.

I have a very easy solution: 15771 Hz tight Q on your DIA master... done like dinner.

Jeff

[ggegan]

Originally Posted by Jfriah

I, too, (can still...and I'm crossing another decade mark this year) hear this stuff all the time.
Jeff

You obviously haven't worked on enough action movies.

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by ggegan

You obviously haven't worked on enough action movies.

Yep, I was mixing ten different types of gunshots for a gang fight scene thinking, "I am probably going deaf for a living if I do too many more of these." Even at low levels, those are sharp transients that peak with higher volume than one notices.

[philper]

In the first demo I saw of Cedar ReTouch there was a bright yellow line across the top of the screen @ 15.7 etc K. The demo guy immediately said "well, I see you had a CRT monitor on the set". How did he know this? There was that bright yellow band, indicating that not only was that 15.7 k all over the place, it was LOUD. (But the people who made the shot didn't hear it.)

Philip Perkins

[captainate]

Thanks for clearing this up, guys. But I think this also brings up the question: why do they still use CRT's? If this is such a commonly recognized problem, why don't they have someone young doing a quick QC check? Having not worked in the business, I'm sure such shoddy work would kill me if I did.

[pethenis]

Doing post sound for 20 years, playing in loud bands all that time, listened to stupid loud music on headphones before I knew better, but I can still hear that CRT whine. (I'm 44). Sometimes it's nice to impress a client: "Ah, I hear you had a monitor on with this shot and not with this." Boy, you have great ears!

And then proceed to use way too much compression on the VO, which offcourse I know as soon as the mix has left the building, but I'm getting old and sometimes I feel I have to compensate a bit for the way stuff sounds on TV nowadays. Lately I sometimes ask beforehand; do you want it to sound good, or do you want it to be as loud as the rest?

Originally Posted by philper

In the first demo I saw of Cedar ReTouch there was a bright yellow line across the top of the screen @ 15.7 etc K. The demo guy immediately said "well, I see you had a CRT monitor on the set". How did he know this? There was that bright yellow band, indicating that not only was that 15.7 k all over the place, it was LOUD. (But the people who made the shot didn't hear it.)

Philip Perkins

[Jfriah]

Originally Posted by ggegan

You obviously haven't worked on enough action movies.

Nope! And I always personally tend to prefer...oh never mind, just suffice to say "No, no I haven't"



p.s. I just met a 21 year old young lady recently who asked me to repeat myself several times and she revealed to me that she has trouble hearing the past year or so; she admittedly attributed it to "I listen to my iPod pretty loud with those earbud-type headphones. So that's probably what's done it."

I now, as part of my 'tour spiel' to people that come to find out about post sound, etc., include a little short talk on 'taking care of your ears'.


Jeff

[ggegan]

Originally Posted by Jfriah

Nope! And I always personally tend to prefer...oh never mind, just suffice to say "No, no I haven't"



p.s. I just met a 21 year old young lady recently who asked me to repeat myself several times and she revealed to me that she has trouble hearing the past year or so; she admittedly attributed it to "I listen to my iPod pretty loud with those earbud-type headphones. So that's probably what's done it."

I now, as part of my 'tour spiel' to people that come to find out about post sound, etc., include a little short talk on 'taking care of your ears'.


Jeff

I'm sorry, could you please repeat that?

[insomaniac]

Originally Posted by philper

In the first demo I saw of Cedar ReTouch there was a bright yellow line across the top of the screen @ 15.7 etc K. The demo guy immediately said "well, I see you had a CRT monitor on the set". How did he know this? There was that bright yellow band, indicating that not only was that 15.7 k all over the place, it was LOUD. (But the people who made the shot didn't hear it.)

Philip Perkins

I've seen this in RX's Spectral Repair, too. It's really wild and I see it on production tracks all the time, although many times it's that lovely whine of a nearby HMI. Could listen to that for hours...

[Steb]

aha! so thats how I could tell when there was a TV on upstairs when I was a kid! dont think I can pull that off anymore though... :(

[Jfriah]

Originally Posted by ggegan

I'm sorry, could you please repeat that?

(making signs for "turn it
down!!!")

yeah Steb that's funny--I used to walk down the hall in high school past the computer room and would stop and have to go in and turn off monitors. Destined (cursed) to a life in post!

[philper]

Originally Posted by captainate

Thanks for clearing this up, guys. But I think this also brings up the question: why do they still use CRT's? If this is such a commonly recognized problem, why don't they have someone young doing a quick QC check? Having not worked in the business, I'm sure such shoddy work would kill me if I did.

Most people can't hear the noise, or don't recognize it as such on the set. One VERY good reason to still have a CRT around is that they have no latency, and thus display picture in sync w/sound w/o having to delay the audio! I still keep an old one in the studio just for sanity checks (ie "this is what sync looks like")!

phil p

[captainate]

I don't work with video (I only posted in the "post prod." forum because of the nature of the complaint) so I wasn't aware LCD had latency problems. I suppose it makes sense that the latency is comparable to the digital conversion of audio vs. the nanoseconds of latency analog boasts. Still, I never thought about that before. Thanks for further expanding my understanding of technology!

[Jfriah]

Phil-- along with my little talk about protecting your hearing, I usually ask the group to listen carefully and tell me if they notice anything when I turn off this television... interesting when you explain what it is/what it sounds like and then people notice it.

And re: LCD tv's---
LCD TV Response Time, Why it's Important



and that's just inherent to the units, not counting video processing from your video system/card/etc.

Jeff

[huub]

It's not just response time, if you watch video (not a computer output) on a flat screen, the interlaced video has to be converted to true progressive (it has to create a true frame from two fields) and that takes a frame or so...
Well, that's how one of our video enginers explained it anyway..
In our OB trucks (and everyone elses) all flat screens are out of sync :(
And then there's multiview cards, taking even more processing time...

[paulo m]

Lately I sometimes ask beforehand; do you want it to sound good, or do you want it to be as loud as the rest?

AH AH AH, I understand you perfectly. But I´m getting worse than that, all I say is if they want it louder, rather than good, go somewhere else, I had enough of that stupid loudness crap in detriment of sound quality.