Dialog driven show - Overall volume Q

[D'Animation]

Quick question for those that do a lot of documentary type shows I guess. I'm pre-school animated tv by day and only ever contributed sound design for live-action, never mixed it so looking for a bit of advice. We're producing a short making-of extra for TV (and maybe DVD release) on our new show.
So its a lot of talking heads mingled with clips of the show etc. Obviously cause its dialog only for the majority, whereabouts are you putting your dialog level-wise so that the show as a whole is consistently 'loud enough'?

UK station (BBC), Stereo mix, peaks at -10dbFS.
Thanks

[Henchman]

I put it where ut feels right according to my ears.

[originalscottyg]

If you are using clips of the show, already mixed to broadcast level I ASSume, then can't you just mix the dialog to a comfortable level in relation to the rest of the show?

[philper]

If you are mixing for TV broadcast then you have to get your producers to get you the audio spec of the network you are delivering to, and the whole project has to conform to that spec. In any case, you'd want the levels of the extras to match those of the main attraction, broadcast or no.

phil p

[spoons]

UK station (BBC), Stereo mix, peaks at -10dbFS.
Thanks

-10dbfs? you mean 6 ppm for BBC ... dbfs could peak higher ...

If you really want a number i'd say talking heads between 4.5 and 5.5 ppm ..

[D'Animation]

-10dbfs? you mean 6 ppm for BBC ... dbfs could peak higher ...

Our specs our actually just the the -10 peak - nothing else - we deliver all our stuff to the producers and they are the ones that distribute to the different channels. All our stuff is internationally distributed etc so I actually never know what channels the show gets sold too (last show went to 80 countries at last count). We mix to their general spec and they pass on (and presumably remix from stems if needs be), its the way they do it unfortunately.

If you are using clips of the show, already mixed to broadcast level I ASSume, then can't you just mix the dialog to a comfortable level in relation to the rest of the show?

Thats what I going for - just wasn't sure if it was the norm or whether you give the dialog a boost as its the only thing really in the mix (no music/no big sfx etc)

In any case, you'd want the levels of the extras to match those of the main attraction, broadcast or no.

Thank you

[FullFrequency]

I mix for the BBC all the time. 6PPM max, transients can go over -10dbFs, but it's common practice to use a brick wall limiter set to -10 nowadays for safety in the quick turnaround world that we live in. Sit your dials at (as was stated earlier) 4.5 - 5.5 PPM however feels right to you.

BBC now use EBU spec so tone should be -18dbFS from 09:58:30:00 to 09:59:40:00

I'd request the spec sheet from your producers though to be safe!

FF

[D'Animation]

Originally Posted by FullFrequency

I mix for the BBC all the time. 6PPM max, transients can go over -10dbFs, but it's common practice to use a brick wall limiter set to -10 nowadays for safety in the quick turnaround world that we live in. Sit your dials at (as was stated earlier) 4.5 - 5.5 PPM however feels right to you.

BBC now use EBU spec so tone should be -18dbFS from 09:58:30:00 to 09:59:40:00

I'd request the spec sheet from your producers though to be safe!

FF

thanks - I tried requesting from them but they just sent me their spec again so went straight to BBC and got it. It'll probably be on one of the nickolodeon (can never spell that word...) channels in the US too so have their specs and balance between. Everything gets QC'ed by producers and broadcaster so no fear it'll be unbroadcastable, just wasn't sure if this type of stuff needed treating differently.

[FullFrequency]

Originally Posted by D'Animation

thanks - I tried requesting from them but they just sent me their spec again so went straight to BBC and got it. It'll probably be on one of the nickolodeon (can never spell that word...) channels in the US too so have their specs and balance between. Everything gets QC'ed by producers and broadcaster so no fear it'll be unbroadcastable, just wasn't sure if this type of stuff needed treating differently.

Cool. as a heads up BBC seems to have a few new (read as overzealous) QC ops at the moment so be extra careful. We had some shockingly bad archive material bounce back (even though it was marked on the record report) recently and had to phone up their head of QC to get it through. Once he had a listen he knew what we were talking about!

FF

[spoons]

Originally Posted by D'Animation

Our specs our actually just the the -10 peak - nothing else

Sorry, you said for the BBC ... This is from their spec.

Digital “true” peak reading meters such as on VTRs and DAT recorders will typically read 4dB higher than a BS 5428 PPM on programme material though they should agree on steady tone. As it is unusual for digital level meters to match a BS 5428 PPM when measuring programme material, suppliers should never use “peak reading” meters to assess programme levels accurately unless they are known to meet BS 5428.

All their delivery specs. can be found here ..

BBC Guidelines - Delivering Quality - Television

I mix a show thats out in 143 countries ... For the BBC version I find -10dbfs to be to low for PPM 6 ... -9dbfs gives me a good PPM6 peak and also fits in with the general european peak and US Disney peak of -9dbfs too. But they are reversioned anyway.

I also use the BBC tone that pulses on the left side ... not just straight tone.

[D'Animation]

Originally Posted by spoons

Sorry, you said for the BBC ... This is from their spec.

Digital “true” peak reading meters such as on VTRs and DAT recorders will typically read 4dB higher than a BS 5428 PPM on programme material though they should agree on steady tone. As it is unusual for digital level meters to match a BS 5428 PPM when measuring programme material, suppliers should never use “peak reading” meters to assess programme levels accurately unless they are known to meet BS 5428.

All their delivery specs. can be found here ..

BBC Guidelines - Delivering Quality - Television

I mix a show thats out in 143 countries ... For the BBC version I find -10dbfs to be to low for PPM 6 ... -9dbfs gives me a good PPM6 peak and also fits in with the general european peak and US Disney peak of -9dbfs too. But they are reversioned anyway.

I also use the BBC tone that pulses on the left side ... not just straight tone.

I'm well aware of what they're specs are and I monitor both ways but as I said above, our producer spec is -10 so if I go -9, we fail their QC - I don't like it, I don't understand it but I'm just trying to hit a middle ground...

I'm doing 5.1 work for them end of year and they have never had programming in 5.1 so god knows what kind of spec they'll come up with.

I've a Disney show next year so at least I'll get a straight spec from them...
Thanks anyway