Panning sounds in 5.1 mix

[bob66it]

Hi everyone,
This is my first topic and probably for you is a stupid topic, but i have 3 questions about panning sounds in a 5.1 movie mix:
1- when you have a mono sound effect and you want to listen it in the front, where is better to pan it? Only in the center channel? Only in The left and right channels? Or in The LCR channels?
2- and with a stereo sound effects?
3- should i use only The center channel for dialogue? Or is better to use also a bit The LR?
Sorry about this stupid questions but you are my sound bible!!!
I hope you understand my terrible english
Bye bye
Bob

[matisrei]

I guess it all depends on the effect and movie. Some LR is usually also sent to center.

The best way to learn is to watch/listen many movies in 5.1 system with the ability to listen all speakers separately. Turn off or solo center where there is an interesting sound, it helps a lot.
cheers

[Big Andy]

Answer 1- it depends on the fx. For example foley typically stays in the Center Channel. In my mixes 95% of the time anything an Actor touches or interacts with will be in the center. Then say an Actor picks up an alien rifle and it powers up. That growth sound it would make I'd place in the LCR channels. Now picture Bruce Willis picking up an AK47 in a wide shot, maybe I'd give L and R a little of that sound (and if so most of that would be a reverb return, say Brucy was in a deserted alleyway), but mostly C.

Answer 2- If the difference between the L and R from my editor is simply the premixed pan in the sound, I will just throw away on side. A lot of my projects are under extreme time crunches so many times i'll just leaves stereo fx LR unless it's obviously sounding to wide or it feels wrong. The LR channels are used for music, FX, BGs and occasionally foley and very rarely dialog.

A lot of the time stereo fx will be used as Backgrounds or Color fx, Car bys for example and will stay around the hard LR area. In this case we can leave it out of the center channel and leave it panned LR, but it is all relative and many times I have used the center channel to add extra kick for a director that wanted his explosion extra big.

If say I have birds in my backgrounds, I might leave that panned LR while I pan my room hisses mostly dead center to help support my dialog in a overly quiet scene.

There is no definite answer to 1 or 2. The only thing I can tell you is just make it sound good.

Answer 3- leave you dialog C. If your character is in a location that would have fun reverb, then use a fun reverb. You can have that return in any or all of the channels.

[bob66it]

Thank you matisrei
Now i'm looking for some bluray to listen
do you know if there is a software to extract multichannel audio from bluray??

[Big Andy]

Ps: sorry for the typos and incoherent ramblings. I'm up way to late right now! =^P

[bob66it]

Big Andy you are great!!!
Thank you for you detailed answer but...
If you mix a movie with only dialogs and foley (as extreme example), with no music and effects, all the sound should go in the center channel?

[Enos]

There are no written rules as to how you should place sounds when mixing for surround but it has become common practice to place 99% of your onscreen dialogue in the centre channel. Ofcourse, if your dialogue is in the centre then you would expect the foley to come from the centre too which is what usually happens. Reverbs and any fx placed on the dialogue can be panned as needed to centre, LR or LR & surrounds. All depends on the spaces the actors are in and how you want to use the reverb.

Ofcourse, there is no saying you can't move dialogue on screen or even off it for creative reasons. In a short film I recently mixed the lead character is in a state of shock and lying on the floor and the sound takes a fully subjective point of view. The backgrounds dissapear, a bit of music comes in and to heighten the state of shock of the character his few lines of dialogue come out of all speakers (except sub). This makes for a surreal effect and really gives a strong sense of isolation and subjective POV.

I have never encountered a situation where there is ONLY dialogue and foley as there is always something going on in the backgrounds,music,etc... So it is a bit of an irrelevant question to answer whether to mix that central or open it up. But I would say yes, why not, mix it central. It will make for a nice impact once backgrounds and/or music and fx come back and take over the rest of the channels!

[SDDP]

Originally Posted by matisrei

I guess it all depends on the effect and movie. Some LR is usually also sent to center.

The best way to learn is to watch/listen many movies in 5.1 system with the ability to listen all speakers separately. Turn off or solo center where there is an interesting sound, it helps a lot.
cheers

This is one of the best ways to learn. Watch your favorite movie (one that you have seen enough times that you've almost memorized the lines) that is dialogue/foley/sfx heavy like Transformers. Disconnect the center and watch the whole film. You'll get a great idea of what's been panned where and why.

[Big Andy]

If you're working on a film that is mostly dialog and foley most of the film will be in the Center channel. *90% of almost any movie comes from the letter C

Even in the event that your mixing a dialog/foley piece, you should still have BGs that can be spread across LCR and reverb that you can return in LCR and even LS and RS. To add more to that, there are many cases I'll add beef to a foley sound by running it through a sub harmonic synth which can be put in LCR and LFE channels!

Even 5.1 documentaries have a little something in the LRs.

[matisrei]

If its mostly dialog and foley, i suggest you to check out Coen's "Serious man" in 5.1 and see how they used 90% center and 10% LR (plus very little rears).

There is some interesting use of reverbs and atmosphere-pannings.

[bob66it]

Thank you thank you
For all your answers
Now i am looking a lot of films without The C channel or with The C in solo
With these and with all your answer i should better understand the right way to mix

[Actualsizeaudio]

I have to second what most people in here are saying.

the issue of the center channel is very interesting. A few of the broadcast shows I do in surround I do in stereo first, and then spend a bit up-mixing them to 5.1. In these situations I'm required to have only dialog in the center.

I've done a few surround DVDs, and features, and I'm working on one now that will be in theaters sept 21 (100 Voices). for this one, I'm putting just a touch of dialog on the L/R (80/20). I feel like this really helps people on the sides of the theater not feel "removed" from the mix. I also have some singing and such that is being anchored in the center, and spread out on the sides as well.

the issue with doing that is phasing. It can sound weird with 3 speakers all having dialog come out of them. For this reason alone I always just add a touch to the sides till it feels right. doign your final mix on a stage designed to emulate a theater is a luxury, but worth it IMO.

Have fun, mixing in 5.1 is fun once you are used to it.

[Justas]

As it's been said, dialog usually goes in C.
If it is a theatrical release, it is common practice to "diverge" a little to LR (I go with 70), in orther to improve image in the big rooms. But not everybody does this; it's like there are different "schools" for this.
Good luck!

[pkautzsch]

Working on my first full-length thriller sound design at the moment, we're facing a similar question: how much should go on in the rears? We feel that the movie sounds fine with mostly location/foley from C, and there are only a few places where we find the surround stuff we laid out to actually work. The larger rest seems to just distract from the action/story/front.
So...what do most "couple-in-the-woods" thrillers do with the rear channels? I guess we just don't need BGs in the rear all the time, do we?

Sorry if this hijacks the thread.