Watching things that you've worked on......

[FullFrequency]

Any of you guy watch back programmes / films that you've worked on to see how they come across on television / cinema?

I'm just in the middle of doing it at the moment, and it's rather excrutiating... not that the mix isn't good, it's just that I've now got a list as long as my arm about little things that i'd like to change. I guess that's a good thing in a way because I can implement my thoughts next time... but still - Aaaaaaaarrgghhhhhhh

FF

[insomaniac]

I've gotten a chance to watch something that went back to 35mm at an AMC over a year ago, and it was both a terrifying and amazing experience. Just like you said, so much that could've been done, but if that were the case, we'd never finish

[Jfriah]

I've done it; don't like it.

I've watched series work early on if I'm still working while it airs, but basically I can pipe my mix through the television used as a monitor and enjoy those crappy speakers.

Features I don't tend to watch 'for sound reasons' because, really, at some point the rug gets pulled out from under you at a certain point and "I.I.W.I.I"; that said, I'm not a 'major mixer' with big name credits. I've never gone to see something theatrically that I've mixed other than a couple screenings and big features I've done ADR for to see the end product full-mix.

I find it too painful to 'go back' but it can be a useful exercise just to see what rooms/channels do to your stuff. Not that you have any control over it...

Jeff

[D'Animation]

For better or worse....ALWAYS!
Nothing like seeing 'mistakes' on international tv to make you remember them next time

[soundfx]

Originally Posted by D'Animation

For better or worse....ALWAYS!
Nothing like seeing 'mistakes' on international tv to make you remember them next time

Ain't that the truth. My most painful viewing was a short film I did for a cable network. First 5.1 project I did, and it aired in theaters nationally prior to the previews. Something went haywire somewhere in the chain because it sounded atrocious, like the channels were all reversed. I wanted to leave right then and there. BUT, that single event made me uber anal about tech specs, calibration, dotting all "i"s and crossing all "t"s. Haven't had a cringing moment since.

[FullFrequency]

I ended up pretty happy with it as a whole. The balance was where I intended it to be as I was (as Jeff mentioned) ABing with TV speakers as alts. The only thing that annoyed me was that all the DX came across a little esssy, and I know it wasn't like that during the mix on either sets of monitoring (Genelec 8050s in this particular room and the TV speakers). Anyway, something for me to keep an eye on, and maybe test on a different TV if I can before doing sign off.

FF

[Bill@AudioVision]

Most of my stuff airs late night or on ATSC sub channels. Some things sound great... others, not so much. The ATSC sub channel stuff is the best.
I remember one show that aired on a superstation with just the voice stem and not the composite mix.
I mentioned it to my client and they got some free air time for the mistake.

[ggegan]

The absolute worst for me are cast and crew screenings and premiers. I wish I could just relax and watch the movie, but I'm too much of a nervous wreck, even though I've never had a bad screening, except once at the Academy for the bake off. The projectionist set the SDDS playback levels about 6dB too hot. He claimed there was no standard playback level for SDDS, so he just winged it. Thanks, buddy, that really made my evening special. It was a very painful experience in every way you can imagine.

[charles maynes]

watching your work is very important- but I think it is only useful once you have some time away from it, and can disconnect yourself from the other aspects, both good and bad.

I remember HATING Starship Troopers, due to the process, but when I actually went back and saw it a year or two later, I found I actually hated it a lot less....

[Henchman]

I always try and watch what I'm working on.
If it's a series, I'll watch about 15 minutes or so, no matter what, to see how my mixes are translating.
And I always like to see the features.

I've been pretty happy to date.
No big surprises.

I actually have found stuff I cringed at during the mix, seemed to not bug me at all on broadcast.

[camus]

I hate attending premieres because of this so I always cook up some bullshit excuse not to go. Later I might sneak into the cinema on my own just so I can note what not to do next time...

[D'Animation]

Originally Posted by Henchman

I always try and watch what I'm working on.
If it's a series, I'll watch about 15 minutes or so, no matter what, to see how my mixes are translating.
And I always like to see the features.

I've been pretty happy to date.
No big surprises.

I actually have found stuff I cringed at during the mix, seemed to not bug me at all on broadcast.

Same here - I totally forget some stuff that we bounced about the place for ages and then bits we really liked at mix were missing something. I guess its the whole hindsight thing or just plain voodoo...

Also fun if you watch the same show on different channels - very handy for getting some pointers on each channels broadcast chain

[Henchman]

I think the biggest thing I learned to do was, do the best you can, in the time given.
And whatever happens after that isn't worth worrying about, because you can't change it anyway.

[ggegan]

Originally Posted by Henchman

I think the biggest thing I learned to do was, do the best you can, in the time given.
And whatever happens after that isn't worth worrying about, because you can't change it anyway.

You're absolutely right. There is so much we have little or no control over, so many potential traps and so much Byzantine political maneuvering going on both above and below the line that all you can do is your absolute best and then accept the outcome.

[FullFrequency]

Originally Posted by ggegan

You're absolutely right. There is so much we have little or no control over, so many potential traps and so much Byzantine political maneuvering going on both above and below the line that all you can do is your absolute best and then accept the outcome.

you make an interesting point there, as there's cleary more than one perspective on how to look at it. For instance there's the higher budget perspective which I suspect a few of you guys are looking at it from, where at a certain point you're stuck in the middle of a battle field consisting of producer, director and the big company who want units sold - actually when i look at it like that i wonder why i really want to end up in the film dram side of things......still would though

From my perspective, at the moment I'm working lots of broadcast doc, entertainment etc, and to be honest, apart from the odd client here or there who's very particular about certain aspects, I pretty much have free reign over how the show's mixed, which is of course very liberating (or as liberating as it can be with only 20 odd source tracks to think about) but also means that I kind of make myself think about the rest of the chain a bit more. Never know who's watching that tear jerking doc and happen to be looking for a new mixer for their soon to be award winning film (yeah right.... can but dream)

FF

[Jfriah]

Nice stuff, guys.
Mark, you're getting a quote on my thread.

Jeff

[soundfx]

I love it when people can use the word "Byzantine" in a post.

[PoxyMusic]

Originally Posted by soundfx

I love it when people can use the word "Byzantine" in a post.

I once produced an audio tour on Byzantine Art for the Met in NYC. It was a very clear and straightforward job!

[Sonsey@mac.com]

Part of the "pain" of listening to your work is also due to the fact that you're still in that love/hate stage with the project. Time can provide some distance. I just came across an episode of an animated show I mixed quite a few years ago on TV, and it sounded just fine - don't remember being that pleased with it at the time.

[ggegan]

Originally Posted by PoxyMusic

I once produced an audio tour on Byzantine Art for the Met in NYC. It was a very clear and straightforward job!

There lies the difference between art and politics.

[thoogenakker]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

watching your work is very important- but I think it is only useful once you have some time away from it

Very good point. I definitely hear the mix in a fresh perspective after getting away from it for a while..

This week I did an HD layback the day of finishing my mix that had to ship immediately, which of course didn't allow me to stop, go back and make a few tweaks that were driving me a little crazy while watching it down.

It's SUCH a hard balance - being a perfectionist in this business vs. being able to "let it go".. Some of you cats are better about this than I am.. I'd be lying if I said I didn't lose sleep over some projects.

[ggegan]

Originally Posted by thoogenakker

Very good point. I definitely hear the mix in a fresh perspective after getting away from it for a while..

I find physical distance from the console can serve as somewhat of a substitute for temporal distance.

For reel playbacks it is really helpful for me to step away from the console and watch from behind the credenza where the clients sit. It isn't because I want to hear what they are hearing, it's because it helps me watch as an audience member and not as a mixer. I don't even like writing down notes anymore because it changes the way I perceive things. If the note is important enough, I'll remember it. I just want to watch and react honestly as if I had nothing to do with the process of making the movie. As Madonna put it, "Like a virgin..."

[minister]

Originally Posted by ggegan

I find physical distance from the console can serve as somewhat of a substitute for temporal distance.

For reel playbacks it is really helpful for me to step away from the console and watch from behind the credenza where the clients sit. It isn't because I want to hear what they are hearing, it's because it helps me watch as an audience member and not as a mixer. I don't even like writing down notes anymore because it changes the way I perceive things. If the note is important enough, I'll remember it. I just want to watch and react honestly as if I had nothing to do with the process of making the movie. As Madonna put it, "Like a virgin..."

I do the same. I go sit where the clients or audience will and not look at or handle a fader. It gives me the big picture of the mix. For TV or music, I step out of the room and leave the door open.

Time, like water, does smooth over the rough and raw surfaces of a mix experience. I've gone back after a year and thought, "Oh, that's pretty good. Nothing to worry about." But there are still some things in a few projects that I wish I could have back. As for seeing it in a venue, it always makes me squirm, but I have to tell myself that I have no control over the situation. A couple of times I have seen some pretty great playbacks, which was a delight.

I do think that Gary is far more experienced and Zen than Tim or I.

[ggegan]

Originally Posted by minister

I do think that Gary is far more experienced and Zen than Tim or I.

I think it is easy to confuse Zen with wine or pharmaceuticals

[Sonsey@mac.com]

Originally Posted by ggegan

I think it is easy to confuse Zen with wine or pharmaceuticals

Okay... THAT gets quote of the week!

[minister]

Originally Posted by ggegan

I think it is easy to confuse Zen with wine or pharmaceuticals

Ah, THAT'S what they are for.........

[Jfriah]

Yes, Howard...yes it IS. And it is only Tuesday. Though I already advance-gave away the Quote of the Month for August
(see Quotes & Affirmations)


Jeff
(who has lost battles with both sides of the zen teeter-totter/see-saw when it comes to 'perfectionist/leave it alone' standard)

(at this current point I'm very much 'whatever...let's just get through this thing.')

[D'Animation]

Originally Posted by Jfriah

(at this current point I'm very much 'whatever...let's just get through this thing.')

Can you vote yourself up for a quote of the week?!!

[FullFrequency]

I just mixed 2 x 1 hr docs in 12 hrs.

1) i shall definitely not be watching them back..... ever, ever, ever!

and 2) this is the biggest "whatever" to a mix i shall ever give (hopefully) haha!

FF

[ggegan]

Originally Posted by FullFrequency

I just mixed 2 x 1 hr docs in 12 hrs.

1) i shall definitely not be watching them back..... ever, ever, ever!

and 2) this is the biggest "whatever" to a mix i shall ever give (hopefully) haha!

FF

I've done some down and dirty 3 day temp dubs on features that had more heart and soul in them than the final did. They were certainly flawed technically, but had a certain spontaneity that can get lost when you go over things with a fine toothed comb, kind of like a great live concert vs a studio album.