Joining MPEG as sound editor - help!

[brianwflood]

Hey everyone, I thought I'd bring this topic back and get more insight. (I'm surprised there are fewer threads on this topic actually....)

So a number of experienced union editors replied saying that the "roster" is a joke and that the union doesn't actually get you work, just benefits, as well as negotiating with your clients for the best possible rate. It sounds to me, therefore, that the only way one gets gigs is the old-fashioned way, which is just build connections (in this case, to the big guys, because the little ones can't pay you union rates.) Is this 100% accurate first of all?

In my case, what really appeals to me is the fact that I can apprentice in the union (I'm really into a few audio post crafts, trying to pick which one is best for me.) To me, this means really improving my chops on proper gear, alongside a pro, on great projects, while getting paid. Honestly...this sounds too good to be true! I fear that I may pay $1000 to join, but since the union doesnt seem to actually supply work, I may be wasting my money. So should I just wait until I'm a full-fledged and established freelancer with loads of connections to do this?

Thanks everyone.

[brianwflood]

No, the motion pictures editors guild, https://www.editorsguild.com

Can't do MPSE because it's in LA (I'm in NY)

[brianwflood]

Actually, I just read more details on MPSE, doesn't matter where I live! I guess then my questions can apply to both.

[charles maynes]

membership info is on both the MPEG and MPSE sites....

[brianwflood]

I've read the literature on MPEG and it's very limited, hence why I posted here. Not to mention it's a $1000 investment, so it's worth knowing the insider's POV, i.e. what the unions will not tell you. MPSE I've been reading more about...

[charles maynes]

MPEG is specific to the film and TV community in Los Angeles for the most part- they do also cover NYC ad San Francisco, but unless you are doing sound editing on IATSE Signatory shows it is not really of much interest. The things that film workers do receive through the Union are our Heathcare Package and Pension though. You can see more about that through the Motion Picture Industry Health and Pension Plan though.

mpiphp.org - Resources


after your initial qualification, you must work 300 Hours per six month qualifying period to have health benefits- this is changing to 400 hours per six months in July 2011 though. There is also a quarterly dues and percapita assessment that is required- for a Sound or Music Editor, that assessment is about $180 x 4 per year.

MPSE is an honorary group which doesnt not provide benefits that are similar- it is more akin to AES.

[breaktheory]

Originally Posted by brianwflood

Hey everyone, I thought I'd bring this topic back and get more insight. (I'm surprised there are fewer threads on this topic actually....)

So a number of experienced union editors replied saying that the "roster" is a joke and that the union doesn't actually get you work, just benefits, as well as negotiating with your clients for the best possible rate. It sounds to me, therefore, that the only way one gets gigs is the old-fashioned way, which is just build connections (in this case, to the big guys, because the little ones can't pay you union rates.) Is this 100% accurate first of all?

In my case, what really appeals to me is the fact that I can apprentice in the union (I'm really into a few audio post crafts, trying to pick which one is best for me.) To me, this means really improving my chops on proper gear, alongside a pro, on great projects, while getting paid. Honestly...this sounds too good to be true! I fear that I may pay $1000 to join, but since the union doesnt seem to actually supply work, I may be wasting my money. So should I just wait until I'm a full-fledged and established freelancer with loads of connections to do this?

Thanks everyone.

I can only tell you my experience as someone newly added to the roster. I worked for peanuts at a shop that got me steady work for the past 2 years.

As far as why you'd want to join...you can't legally work on union shows unless you're a member - plain and simple. It's not about the guild finding you work - I wouldn't count on it.

I needed 200 days (1 day=8 hours @ min. wage) within 3 years and got it done in just over 2 years (for full sound editor classification). It took me another 2 months to find my first union gig but finally started getting paid decent union scale.

It's just as hard to find work whether or not you're in the union. Going for union gigs you're also competing with people that have double or triple the experience that you do but there are also a lot more doors open to you since you're able to work inside and outside of the union.

Get on the roster once you've worked your required amount of days. It's free. You'll be able to work on union shows as long as you're on the roster but you don't have to put down your initiation fee until you've worked 30 days on a union show.

[Big Andy]

The Union can be great. When you work a Union Gig your rate is typically very nice and you don't have to hunt down the producer to get your money. Health Care is also very good but it can be tough to maintain if you freelance.

The "Roster" doesn't do much as far as I've seen. Though, that is just word of mouth as I haven't tried it.... I wouldn't count on it though.

If you join as a sound/editor, you will have a better chance at getting a steady job, but it will take time to find one. If you join as a higher classification, best of luck to ya! There are maybe 30 guys in all of LA employed full time by studios in a Y1 position.

Also, you mentioned Apprenticing. In my experience, this means you'll work in Film Shipping or as a tape runner. You might get to talk to the guys/gals doing the work, but actually sitting down with them and learning is another story. I would think, the Teacher would be training you if you both have down time or after hours. Most studios don't want to pay the extra $16/hr to train the next generation.... now learn how to keep books and they'll happily take you on with a six figure salary. LOL, there I go being bitter again.

Best advice I can give, is get all your qualification paper work together, then bring it to the Union Office and get them to start the looking over and filing process. While that is happening, spend every waking moment looking for a Union gig and once you find it and get it go pay your dues.

I was employed full time at a studio before I got the union green light. They just didn't let me work until it cleared. I think I was waiting maybe 5 hrs once I told the office I was hired.

PS: You get TONS of free movie screenings. That is the best benefit IMO!

[ggegan]

Joining the union is a must if you want to work on mainstream features and network TV, but these days the budgets on a lot of previously medium budget projects have been reduced to the point where you can't do them under a union contract without losing money. It seems to me that the marketplace has gravitated to the extremes with mega budget tent-pole projects at one end and micro budget projects at the other and the middle budget projects that are the bread and butter for many becoming increasingly scarce. I know of several long time union members who for the first time in their careers have been unable to work 300 union hours in 6 months, used up their bank of hours and are now paying for COBRA insurance. I expect this trend to continue. Unfortunately it will become even harder to qualify for benefits in the future because the number of qualifying hours is being raised to 400. That's no reason not to join the union, but I have a feeling that for many people it will become increasingly irrelevant in the future.

[charles maynes]

I think about 20% of the Union is working regularly, and the other 80% is chronically under-employed. It is an unsustainable situation as far as I can tell.

[JSt0rm]

I'm in the union and I did maybe 4 weeks of union work this year. lol. EVERYTHING is non union in my world. But I dont want to cut on tv so I like doing even low budget film as it keeps me down that path. I also enjoy cutting animation so I do some of that as well. What I'm working on is in the tv world, but its great experience as its huge scifi style and I really get to do a ton of sound design. Its great experience as I feel like I could cut any car chase, dogfight or huge battle thrown at me at this point.

[georgia]

I'm a member of MPSE and CAS... and i've found them very helpful a number of times.

cheers
geo

[ruy]

650 billed union hours just to qualify for healthcare.

[Berolzheimer]

Originally Posted by Big Andy

If you join as a sound/editor, you will have a better chance at getting a steady job.......

You're joking, right?

[RecRoom]

Originally Posted by georgia

I'm a member of MPSE and CAS... and i've found them very helpful a number of times.

cheers
geo

Is there much membership in New York for either of these? I've been to SPARS and AES meetups, but feels like there's a real lack of community here. Does anyone else feel that way?

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by Berolzheimer

You're joking, right?

I think Andy means vs being a Y1. (I think....)

[ggegan]

Originally Posted by Berolzheimer

You're joking, right?

I think he meant as opposed to being a Y1 mixer, but there's no reason you couldn't do both. Anyway, these days I think you're going to be scrambling to stay employed no matter how you bill yourself or whether you join the union or not.

[Big Andy]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

I think Andy means vs being a Y1. (I think....)

Charles and Gary know what's up!

Yeah, that's Sound Editing vs Mixing. It's not an easy road either way though. Keep in mind that there is no such thing as a one trick pony anymore. We need to have a very very broad skill set to keep getting gigs.

@ Gary, I totally agree with you. I do both and I know a lot of people here do to.

[georgia]

Originally Posted by RecRoom

Is there much membership in New York for either of these? I've been to SPARS and AES meetups, but feels like there's a real lack of community here. Does anyone else feel that way?

Yeah, I used to go to the AES, SPARS and SMPTE meeting, etc... no good reason to go anymore... I wish there was a CAS or MPSE meeting here in NYC once in a while.

cheers
geo