What "moment" led you to Post-Production?

[soundfx]

Seems an interesting topic to me, though perhaps it has been covered, but if anyone would like to share here, I'd love to hear it.

For me, my "moment" was at age 13 circa 1987. My friend and I used an old camcorder to make silly movies and fake commercials, and we did a campfire scene in the woods behind my house one time. I somehow realized that we could replace the audio on the camcorder, so for fire-crackling, I got some plastic wrap and scrunched it in front of the mic. For footsteps, I gathered some leaves and scrunched those in front of the camcorder MIC as well. Blew my mind. I thought it was the coolest thing ever that I made the sound AFTER the fact...kind of a revelation, as it never occurred to me that THAT was how sound for video was made. Simple as that. Totally hooked. Curious for other "moments" or stories that hooked you guys as well, as they might also help inspire those looking to get in to the industry.

[charles maynes]

seeing Terminator II.


I had already done film work prior to that too.

[kk@jamsync.com]

We were asked to do the audio sweetening for Tim McGraw's "Something Like That" music video, which was a bunch of live clips cut to the studio cut. I immediately "got it" that if you could cut FX to picture, you could cut picture to music and it must be a related creative process. So we bought Final Cut and coincidentally became testers for Sonic Solutions, which brought us into the world of AC3 encoding and MPEG2 encoding.

Otherwise, I'd be doing some really dreary country music stereo mastering (not that there's anything wrong with that but it would feel like a regular job...

[Big Andy]

A record I worked on got nominated for Album of the year and so I went out to buy the record for myself (as I had not gotten a copy yet) and I realized I had no credit ANYWHERE on the record. So I called the label to see why I had no print credit and was then informed that I was not going to receive payment for the work I had done on the record because there was a superseding contract with another Engineer in Florida who was originally signed on to do the record.

So, I thought:

Post Production > Music + No Pay + No Credit / Album of the Year

[jrfountain]

In grade 12 I did a co-op placement at Sound Dogs in Toronto through a connection with a past grad from my highschool and my music teacher. I didn't like it much for the longest time but then we had to do a little project/presentation to our class about what goes on at our co-op. So I decided to cut the sound effects to a scene of "Maximum Risk" (there was old VHS's of it kicking around still from when SD cut it) and show it to the class. My classmates didn't get it but I realized that for me cutting fx was a lot like writing and arranging music and I totally dug it. I've been a sucker for sounds ever since.

JR

[Brent Hahn]

Hearing Stan Freberg's "United States of America" on headphones.

[georgia]

I was mixing music.... a film came in, very music heavy, raw tracks of rock / new age and orchestra sessions to mix along with dialogue and sound design. It was fun, but I thought the sound desgin was lacking. So I did some more.... everyone was much happier.... So I started doing sound design.... then after about 5 years I started seeing how mixers were mucking about with my sound design and I didn't like more often than not, so I started mixing..... then after another few years I realized editors were missing opportunities to integrate story, picture and sound to create a much better more holistic picture & story.... so I started doing some additional picture editorial which lead to lead picture editor on a bunch of films and shows... the next thing I knew my team and I were making films... ( dialogue / ADR / music / sound design / foley / mix / picture editorial...) Then I got hired to start "fixing" some problem films.... now since there seems to be a considerable lull in NYC for sound and picture editorial ( unless your willing to work for free or close to free) I bought a couple cameras and my team and I are creating our own content....


go figure... crazy path... but wicked fun

cheers
geo

[ggegan]

The moment came when I had to tell the landlord of my third floor flat (who owned the house and lived down stairs) that I couldn't pay the rent. He was a producer for the documentary department of CTV in Toronto in the early 70's, now deceased. His response was to tell me to go down to the offices on Charles street at 7:00pm and ask for Brenda, who would teach me how to sync dailies for the incoming footage that needed to be ready for the editors by 9:00am the next day. Pay was $8.00 Canadian per hour. I don't think that he had any particular belief in my abilities, I think he really just didn't want to bother looking for a new tenant.

[Uncle Bob]

I started out as a musician. I did extremely well; lots of recording sessions where I kibitzed with top-flight engineers, played major venues and supported the family. Arthritis curtailed my performing career so I started engineering music; I hated being a button pusher for wannabe "artists" and clueless "producers". When I took the PT certification course (which included audio post) my instructor suggested audio post as a career path - more fun & creativity (true), a much better class of people (also true) and better money (not quite yet). It's been nine years and very few regrets.

[philper]

I come from a BG in production sound (after music and experimental films etc). I often worked for local video houses where the editors did all the post audio (what there was of it)--this is in the late 1970s. I would kill myself on location, and then hear how they'd screwed things up in post. So....self -defense I guess. I had some clients who believed in me and asked me to try my hand at the post of some docs we were shooting together...things turned out well, so I built a studio...still here....

Philip Perkins (CAS)

[apple-q]

Originally Posted by ggegan

The moment came when I had to tell the landlord of my third floor flat (who owned the house and lived down stairs) that I couldn't pay the rent. He was a producer for the documentary department of CTV in Toronto in the early 70's, now deceased. His response was to tell me to go down to the offices on Charles street at 7:00pm and ask for Brenda, who would teach me how to sync dailies for the incoming footage that needed to be ready for the editors by 9:00am the next day. Pay was $8.00 Canadian per hour. I don't think that he had any particular belief in my abilities, I think he really just didn't want to bother looking for a new tenant.

Haha, that´s great!
thumbsup

[Pebble Mill]

Originally Posted by ggegan

The moment came when I had to tell the landlord of my third floor flat (who owned the house and lived down stairs) that I couldn't pay the rent. He was a producer for the documentary department of CTV in Toronto in the early 70's, now deceased. His response was to tell me to go down to the offices on Charles street at 7:00pm and ask for Brenda, who would teach me how to sync dailies for the incoming footage that needed to be ready for the editors by 9:00am the next day. Pay was $8.00 Canadian per hour. I don't think that he had any particular belief in my abilities, I think he really just didn't want to bother looking for a new tenant.

Double thumbsup
That's really great!

[pethenis]

Not exactly a "moment"

Wanted to work in a music studio, but couldn't find an internship. Called up two posthouses and got invited to them both. One of them was a startup and in the process of building the studio after having bought a D.A.R. SoundStation. They we're looking for someone to run the studio.

With no professional audio experience, I said if you let me play with it during the build, I'll know everything there is to know about the machine when the build is done. They said OK, but we can't promise anything after that.

I set up the thing in the machineroom, hooked up a small mixer and a headset and didn't come out for two months. Studio was done, had a long talk and they decided to hire an experienced guy to do the work and train me in the other hours!

He was there for half a year and I watched him, trained with him and eventually did some small jobs on my own. Then he left and I was thrown in the deep end...

Then my real training started, the company lost a few customers because of my unexperience, but believed in me and kept me on. Worked there for five years, the best time of my life and still gratefull to the guys of the company. Now I have my own studio and still do jobs for the original owner of that place.

[Pebble Mill]

My close friend and I studied the same course at university where you could tailor your projects around different types of music tech areas. He encouraged me away from music engineering and into post.

Retrospectively however, I now understand why as a child I loved Die Hard so much. There's something deliciously satisfying about the Foley in that film.

[ruy]

Rumble Fish.

[Jesse Peterson]

I was a dance music producer and had a lot of releases under my belt. I really wanted to do something that had never been done in the chosen genre, surround music... fast forward.. I made a dvd and totally screwed up the audio and it was terrible. With no money and a fast approaching release deadline, I got an internship at a post house in NYC and hoped that I'd get a chance to one day hear my project in the theater and take notes. at the time, that was the only reason I was there.

Then one day, I sat in on a spot session with a sound super and a director. First scene the went over had a huge rolling thunder clap and I watch and listen to them discuss and automate it F-R. Seems so simple and mundane now but that totally blew my mind.

I never looked back and I've been in post ever since
I never released the dvd either lol

[Daft]

Originally Posted by pethenis

Wanted to work in a music studio, but couldn't find an internship.

Exactly. Post is where people end up when they can't find a job in a proper studio!

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by Daft

Exactly. Post is where people end up when they can't find a job in a proper studio!

Post is where people end up, when they realise that's where they can make a living, have a life and not have to deal with whiney, insecure untalented "musicians".

[Jfriah]

... when I got a call from an instructor at school (for Music Recording in general) two days after finishing "Go to this studio tomorrow; they're hiring." (the studio has a good relationship with the school and interviews students who fit the bill)

Three months of trial-by-fire/sink-or-swim and three months of PAY...

Heck, I liked movies...I'd always been into sound stuff ...I'm getting paid and paying off my student loan... done deal!

And whatever 'making of Star Wars' video back in the day showing Ben Burtt tapping on the wires, etc. As a kid that definitely got my interest and led to audio experimentation. (figuring out as a kid I could plug headphones into a microphone jack on my Dad's stereo and voice my own kung fu movies and do 'foley' [yep: cellophane paper and leaves and peeling a hard boiled egg for a stop-motion action figure short film sequence of an alien coming out of an eggshell] patching into the VCR audio jacks was a big thing, and then drama tech all through high school certainly went well)

And I'm still playing today.

p.s. various horror movies (The Exorcist and American Werewolf in London in particular) showing me as a youngster the power of sound to manipulate/direct emotion and feelings.


and
p.p.s. I second the feeling of

"post is where people end up when they find out they can make a living (at the time) when other classmates were still running coffee and cleaning up after sessions FOR FREE, for weeks, months, years at a time hoping someone gets hit by a bus and they have to fill in"

So I hope that was tongue-in-cheek, Daft.

Jeff

[FullFrequency]

Originally Posted by Henchman

Post is where people end up, when they realise that's where they can make a living, have a life and not have to deal with whiney, insecure untalented "musicians".

+1 to that..... also "proper studio" had to laugh at that....

aaanyway - as for me.

i was lucky enough to go straight into post before i even finished Uni. i got offered a job as a runner making tea after my first year of a music tech degree. I'd already been writing dance music and DJing round the country since my teens so already had a very good grasp of the tools that i'd use (or so i thought at the time anyway - obviously I found out very quickly how little i knew) I was a runner for 6 months before the engineer at the studio i was at had an argument with a VO artist, which caused the company to almost lose the contract (a big sports show which showed worldwide, every week ongoing) - They needed someone to step in and the conversation went something like this...

My ex boss: Are you capable of doing this

Me: Yes (meaning no)

My ex Boss: ok, that job's yours, don't screw it up

Me: No worries (crapping my pants)

That was about 5 years ago. I'm pretty good friends with the VO artist mentioned above and I'm now a freelance sound designer/ dubbing mixer but still do work for that company, so I guess I've been really lucky.

just my 2p

[soundfx]

Originally Posted by Henchman

Post is where people end up, when they realise that's where they can make a living, have a life and not have to deal with whiney, insecure untalented "musicians".

Totally agreed. I've always been a musician and actually first wanted to be a music engineer. After school, my first gig was interning with Dallas Austin. All I got out of that was the ability to babysit for strippers and to fetch snacks for TLC on their last album. I had just gotten married and bought a house, so money was needed. I somehow got an entry-level engineering post position and that was that. Very happy I realized early on that there was much more money and creativity on average in post. Not having to work with musicians is a giant boon as well.

[emf1138]

When I saw the morning Bagel trays and afternoon cookie spread as a client at WB, I knew post was for me.

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by emf1138

When I saw the morning Bagel trays and afternoon cookie spread as a client at WB, I knew post was for me.

you should have seen the pies that Bill Varney used to have brought in in the afternoon at Universal....

[ggegan]

Originally Posted by Henchman

Post is where people end up, when they realise that's where they can make a living, have a life and not have to deal with whiney, insecure untalented "musicians".

This is so true. I spent probably 15 years resisting post as a career because I was a somewhat successful songwriter, composer, arranger and engineer. Post was something I did to make ends meet in between music projects. However, at some point I realized that I could be creative, have a family and a more reliable income with post, and I had never been able to find that kind of lifestyle with music. Music was a roller coaster ride that I loved, and still do, but for me it was not conducive to raising a family. I still play music every day, it is something I need to do, but I'm glad I don't have to make a living from it anymore. Music has actually been more rewarding for me since I removed money from the equation.

[Airon]

Interest for sound effects and film music developed when I saw Jaws, Star Wars, ET and Raiders of the Lost Ark. I pretty much had the Star wars films memorized in sound and picture and my first album I scraped my pocket money together for was film music.

Fast forward, and I was studying to be an engineer(Physics) when I read an ad for an audio engineering school. I'd been composing tunes and recording my own instruments and sound effects from other albums and film with the Amiga back then. I managed to pay my way through that engineering school during which I recorded my first sound effects with school equipment, produced my first voice over effects for some custom game levels(Mexx series for Quake) and some machinima movies for Qdq. I loved it.

After finishing school I had a choice of starting as an engineer in a music studio, an uncertain roller coaster ride as we all know, and a backup position as a dialogue and effects editor for a long-running, probably never-ending show. I was told that the post work was probably going to get me payed much more often, but the real reason I chose the post job was that it was more in line of what I'd been doing anyway for the last three years.

So I got trained on an Augan OMX workstation for six weeks at a third of normal pay and loved it. That was almost 12 years ago and I love it even more today.

The moment for me was making the choice between the music job and the post job. The post work had so much more to offer to me. The love for sound however developed much earlier, when I watched Stars Wars as an eight year old kid in a theater three times in one week.

[soundfx]

Originally Posted by ggegan

This is so true. I spent probably 15 years resisting post as a career because I was a somewhat successful songwriter, composer, arranger and engineer. Post was something I did to make ends meet in between music projects. However, at some point I realized that I could be creative, have a family and a more reliable income with post, and I had never been able to find that kind of lifestyle with music. Music was a roller coaster ride that I loved, and still do, but for me it was not conducive to raising a family. I still play music every day, it is something I need to do, but I'm glad I don't have to make a living from it anymore. Music has actually been more rewarding for me since I removed money from the equation.

Totally true. AND, the great thing about being a musician doing post is that you make fabulous industry contacts and can incorporate writing music for film/TV in to your current career, which is amazingly more lucrative than trying to be a gigging musician.

[Henchman]

I think what guys like Daft don't realise, Is that there are a lot of post guys who started in "proper" studios.

[FullFrequency]

Originally Posted by Henchman

I think what guys like Daft don't realise, Is that there are a lot of post guys who started in "proper" studios.

I think it's also the assumption that post studios aren't "proper"

IMO a "properly" lined up mix stage at the very minimum on a par with a high level music studio, and in some cases better.

When I compare studios both music and post that i've been to in London I can confidently say that the post studios have been of higher calibre in terms of set up, ability to handle clients and also understand the urgency in dealing with something that goes wrong. All IMO though.

[philper]

It seems like a lot of the "newbie" people who post here are looking to move into post from music work of some kind. How many people here--no matter what your experience level is, miss music engineering (I mean studio type work, not location recording)? Would you have stayed in music if the money and opportunities had been there?

Philip Perkins

[ggegan]

Originally Posted by philper

It seems like a lot of the "newbie" people who post here are looking to move into post from music work of some kind. How many people here--no matter what your experience level is, miss music engineering (I mean studio type work, not location recording)? Would you have stayed in music if the money and opportunities had been there?

Philip Perkins

I spent a lot of time on both sides of the glass. I miss playing on sessions more than engineering them, but I prefer post now, although lately it's been a bit of a roller coaster too.

I've always enjoyed composing music as a creative outlet, but writing scores was one of the most difficult and stressful experiences I have ever had, even on the smallish film and TV projects I worked on. After a while I just wasn't enjoying it anymore at all. Mixing features can be stressful sometimes as well, but it is nothing compared to writing a score to someone else's dictates, at least for me. I'm much happier writing music on my own time to my own tastes.