Blending 2 differnt ambiant / reverb / room tone

[djgizmo]

Let me just say I started reading "Dialogue Editing for Motion Pictures" and I'm on page 30 and feel like now I knew nothing before started reading this book. Kinda overwhelming.


Anyways, I'm working on a short film (for another local film festival / contest). I'm the 'dialogue editor' for this project. The producer / director decided to take time for ADR, but for only 1 actor. This ADR was recorded. This actor had his face covered the entire time with a rubber clown mask. (hence the reason why they wanted ADR for this actor).

More details.... I came into this project very very late in the game (the day before pickups). The on location sound recordist/boom op wasn't the best (basically a grip filling in), and all the production audio is soaking wet in room verb from the house they were filming in.

Even more details.... I don't have the DV or Complete Production tool kit or the DigiTranslator, so the only thing I received was the ADR PT session and a DV avi file with the production audio. So basically, I'm chopping and processing dialogue as much as I can.

I used X-Noise to try to remove as much room tone out of the production audio, but of course, it's still there.

I've attempted to try pumping the ADR into a 'similar' reverb, however I can tell the difference of course.

My question is how can I best match the reverb of the ADR to the room reverb of the production audio?

I don't have much (if any) handles on the production audio.. so that makes life fun as well.

Any help would be MUCH appreciated.

[Big Andy]

... I've written this response three times now and needed to start over three times.

First, if you're the Dialogue Editor and not the Re-Recording Mixer, DON'T use Noise Reduction. Even if it sounds strange, let it be. The Mixer will play with EQ and other techniques before doing any kind of NR.

As for the ADR: Do you're best to find or create Room Tone from what is there and lay that under the ADR. Gaps in Room Tone, especially over ADR is a no no and will make the ADR more obvious. We've all made room tone from little slivers of audio you would never think could be mashed together to make something usable, but it can be done. Strip Silence is your friend. (apple + U) I believe.

Also, you shouldn't really be trying to mix in reverb if you aren't the mixer. However, if you are the mixer some things to help you find a good verb are: Size of the space, Early Reflections, Wet/Dry and EQ on the verb. Try to deal with one element at a time and it'll come together much quicker for you. Before you do any of this, make sure your ADR is independently EQ'ed to match production correctly. If you take the production audio and lay it before or after the ADR and loop the two tracks while you are working on EQ it can help. EX: Slappy says sit (prod), Slappy says sit (ADR) *REPEAT*

Finally, Crappy Production Sound you say!

Welcome to the business!

[djgizmo]

Originally Posted by Big Andy

... I've written this response three times now and needed to start over three times.

First, if you're the Dialogue Editor and not the Re-Recording Mixer, DON'T use Noise Reduction. Even if it sounds strange, let it be. The Mixer will play with EQ and other techniques before doing any kind of NR.

As for the ADR: Do you're best to find or create Room Tone from what is there and lay that under the ADR. Gaps in Room Tone, especially over ADR is a no no and will make the ADR more obvious. We've all made room tone from little slivers of audio you would never think could be mashed together to make something usable, but it can be done. Strip Silence is your friend. (apple + U) I believe.

Also, you shouldn't really be trying to mix in reverb if you aren't the mixer. However, if you are the mixer some things to help you find a good verb are: Size of the space, Early Reflections, Wet/Dry and EQ on the verb. Try to deal with one element at a time and it'll come together much quicker for you. Before you do any of this, make sure your ADR is independently EQ'ed to match production correctly. If you take the production audio and lay it before or after the ADR and loop the two tracks while you are working on EQ it can help. EX: Slappy says sit (prod), Slappy says sit (ADR) *REPEAT*

Finally, Crappy Production Sound you say!

Welcome to the business!

lol, been there with retyping all tonight as well. (and re-editing audio, and etc)

I'm basically this production's audio life saver... it was either they bring me on board... or have the video editor do it (which he told me over the phone he didn't want to do as he doesn't have time nor the resources.

I used dialog editor loosely as I guess that's the main issue at hand. (give
me 2 hours and the mixing will be at hand / problem).

So far, I have a decent layer of constant room tone, so ADR doesn't seem abrupt, however its the room reverb that's killing me.

Thank you for providing the idea to loop the production line back to back with the ADR line!

I'll report back my results.

[Lipflap]

I agree with Big Andy's instructions: editors edit; mixers mix. Of course, these lines are blurred and are increasingly becoming blurrier. But as a rule, talk to to mixer and find out the rules of play for each film. In other words, who does want.
If you over-focus on noise reduction or equalization or other processing during the edit, you are (at best) distracted from the dialogue editor's real jobs: make sense of the material; organize the sounds; fix transitions; remove transient noises; and create depth. Too much time with the plug-ins and you lose touch with the scene.
As for ADR reverb, it's usually the mixer's domain, but it it just ain't working, there's a risk that the recordings will never be a good match. But that's too scary to deal with here.

Good luck,

[djgizmo]

Originally Posted by Lipflap

I agree with Big Andy's instructions: editors edit; mixers mix. Of course, these lines are blurred and are increasingly becoming blurrier. But as a rule, talk to to mixer and find out the rules of play for each film. In other words, who does want.
If you over-focus on noise reduction or equalization or other processing during the edit, you are (at best) distracted from the dialogue editor's real jobs: make sense of the material; organize the sounds; fix transitions; remove transient noises; and create depth. Too much time with the plug-ins and you lose touch with the scene.
As for ADR reverb, it's usually the mixer's domain, but it it just ain't working, there's a risk that the recordings will never be a good match. But that's too scary to deal with here.

Good luck,

I agree with you both. Don't get me wrong... I know combining roles is bad. Basically did this project as a favor for the producer/director which will pay off later down the road.
This project is due today to be mailed off and at best its a rush job. However if I would have just left it as it was... the amount of time they took shooting it would have gone to waste.

As for the ADR reverb, I 'think' I have it matched now with the idea provided by Big Andy.
I'm still not even a 1/4 way through your book and every page feels like I'm learning all over again (in a good, but scary way). I wish I had some decent intern experience (working on it) under my belt as it would probably help me apply some / most of the knowledge in the book as well as other projects.