The Sound Toronto has to offer right now...

[PlugHead]

Originally Posted by BeK$

free healthcare

After my past week, you'd be so damn glad to hear those 2 words, you have NO idea...

[stuartprovine]

CM is 100% right. You gotta be in it to win it, baby. Good sounds don't just appear like magic. You have to go get them, and sometimes that means taking risks. Being overly risk averse in this job (most jobs, really) is only a recipe for mediocrity.

[ruy]

Robert Capa.

[tilman]

personal risk was not my concern

maybe the web is not the right place to discuss what I feel and felt here.
Some things can not be expressed through the web very well.
Especially when you are not typing in your own language...

so maybe someone did get my point here. I know there are situations where you should think twice about what you are recording and how far you can go to get the best sonic performance.

I think there is a danger of blunting when you work in the field
of movies and entertainement. Some formulations here made me think of this...


thanks for your posts!
cheers tilman

[sonnykeyes]

tilman you must have hated Blowout!

Sonny Keyes
Ricochet Audio
Toronto

[tilman]

Originally Posted by sonnykeyes

tilman you must have hated Blowout!

Sonny Keyes
Ricochet Audio
Toronto

"A soundman accidentally records the evidence that proves a car "accident" was murder, and consequently finds himself in danger. "

ROFL... :-)

Edit: Will have to watch it agein...









O.k. I got it... no serious discussions in the web anymore.
EDIT: "because things become offtopic to quick"



cheers tilman

[Smallbudgetguru]

Blowout rocks I still have that dvd! My mom bought it for me when I got into film sound :-) e.

Great thread guys! Some nice discussion going on here. Enjoying the read.

I also found it funny that they were holding rioters in the old film studio.

Here is a first hand telling:

You need to log into facebook to see it though

[dsteinwedel]

Well, you guys inspired me. For this week's blog I pulled out a set I recorded when the Olympic Torch came through San Francisco in '08.

Honestly, I've recorded numerous protests in SF and never have I felt at all scared for my safety. Though we've never had anything that devolved into what happened last week in Toronto.

Protests | Field Recordings | David Steinwedel

Enjoy!
-Dave

[PlugHead]

Originally Posted by Smallbudgetguru

I also found it funny that they were holding rioters in the old film studio.

Here is a first hand telling:

You need to log into facebook to see it though

That is a blog worth spending 20 minutes reading...

My country doesn't often disappoint me, but I'm truly saddened by that account and those 'officials'. I'm positive that no good outcome will ever come of an inquiry, and tho there is 'gold to be had' from audio documenting it, it will forever leave a cancerous stain on what 'freedom of speech' means in our current world (and esp. now in this country)... stike

[tilman]

Originally Posted by dsteinwedel

Well, you guys inspired me. For this week's blog I pulled out a set I recorded when the Olympic Torch came through San Francisco in '08.

Honestly, I've recorded numerous protests in SF and never have I felt at all scared for my safety. Though we've never had anything that devolved into what happened last week in Toronto.

Protests | Field Recordings | David Steinwedel

Enjoy!
-Dave

Yes! .. great recordings!
But these are peacefull protests. Totaly different or not?...

The question I ask my self. What would you have done if these protests turned out violent. Would you keep on recording? That is my main question.
and then use these sounds for comercial entertainement projects, like a frenchise movie?

I do not think Robert Capa did license his material for cormercial entertainement projects...

There is a point where you have to recreate or design sounds of rage and violance. And a protest that turns out to become dirty or blody is
such a point to me. (If you work for comercial entertainement)

.... didn´t I say I wanted to stop discussing serious things trough the web?! damn

[airbornesound]

Great recordings, David.

They sound pretty angry to me, especially the first bit - lots of great energy. Nice medium-distant perspective as well.

Tilman, I can see what you're getting at... the concept of benefitting financially while violence is occurring.

However, I'd have to agree with others here that the recordist is not contributing to the violence; he is there as a witness. I think the benefit of capturing such a unique sound for the sake of history, perhaps even as evidence, is invaluable. I take a preservationist's attitude - the event will never happen again and recording it has value. If I can then put that sound - either the protestor's or police's voices/ideas - in others' hands to share, then so much the better to keep the event alive.

I mention this because I was at the G20 protests recording ambiences, chants and police effects. I also recorded the Tamil Tiger protests in Toronto a while back.

Although on Saturday the rain made most recordings useless, Sunday provided some great technical opportunities... after all, with road blocks there was no traffic and I managed to record some clean chants, yells, speeches, reactions, etc.

Both the police and protestors I talked to were friendly... mind you I wasn't at Queen and Spadina when things got rough.

Anyway, there are a lot of claims of misinformation on both sides, so hopefully in some small way field recordings of these events can present an unbiased reflection of what actually happened.

And also contribute to projects where these stories are told.

[BeK$]

I think recording the G20 protest in Toronto and using it on a paying gig would be the most useful thing to come out of it.

[Chris Lago]

I think it's a very dangerous idea to go out there and start recording what's going on. Wouldn't you be scared of getting hurt? So many things could go wrong, be careful damnit!

[Teddy Ray]

I recorded in Iraq and Kosovo. (of course Kosovo was nothing but pathetic snipers shooting with crappy weapons, we all walked out in the open because they couldn't hit anything if their lives depended on it)

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

I think it's a very dangerous idea to go out there and start recording what's going on. Wouldn't you be scared of getting hurt? So many things could go wrong, be careful damnit!

Risk Takers make the world go round. thumbsup

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by Teddy Ray

Risk Takers make the world go round. thumbsup

I just don't want to put my own body at risk

[pechnatunk]

I understand what tilman is getting at.

It obviously depends on the extremity of the situation. And personally I don't think the protests in Toronto cross any moral threshold.

It would obviously be wrong if say, the death of Brandon Lee was left in the final cut for whatever reason.
But (without knowing) I'm sure other films have including scenes where stunt people actually got hurt in filming, but the director liked that take the best.

Granted, that's their profession and they're prepared for it, but it still begs the question - if someone dies on set and there is footage of it, is it disrespectful to include it in the release, or even replay it for that matter.

In Australia we have to include warnings at the start of documentaries that feature indigenous people, mentioning that there may be images of people who are now deceased. Totally different issue I know, but we do have to respect the story behind the story we are telling, so to speak.


So, there's a difference in output. In documentation one can capture and display whatever he/she wants, for it is happening in the real world. It is left up to one's own moral judgment - whether to cease filming and stop the lion eating the zebra (if one could, bad example maybe).
Fiction is a different kettle of fish.
Of course, real/documented sounds and images portrayed as such, can be used within a fictional output. But they shouldn't be masked AS fiction in some circumstances.

So yes, that's my rant.
In regard to this specific situation whatever you've captured would be fine - people yelling, chanting, destruction of property etc
However, if you somehow managed to capture, for example, a person screaming in pain quite prevalent in your recording, I'd have a good think about whether to include it in a fictional context.

I know it's too late now, but personally I would be there, even just to document incidents that may be of use to people harassed and abused by police.

[BeK$]

Originally Posted by Teddy Ray

Risk Takers make the world go round. thumbsup

Well Im sure you have big marbles to match that deep voice. Just remember to use your big brain as well. Pretty ballzy for you to do that in Kosovo. Those weapons are far from shitty. Plus a bullet is a bullet. Anyway Im glad your here safe, big marbles and all.

[ruy]

So what is the best mic for recording angry protesters?

[BeK$]

Originally Posted by ruy

So what is the best mic for recording angry protesters?

Shotgun !

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by ruy

So what is the best mic for recording angry protesters?

Telefunken AK47