SMPTE LA Loudness Meeting 6-15-2010 BE THERE

[dr.sound]

Sorry for the late post but this is a MUST meeting for us all.
See you there!


SMPTE MONTHLY MEETING - JUNE 15, 2010
Linwood Dunn Theater – 1313 N. Vine Street Parking in the rear,
enter on Homewood Avenue Social Hour at 6:30 pm; Program begins at 7:30 pm

Loudness– TV and Related Cinema Post-Production (Can you hear me now?) Congress has now passed H.R. 1084, the CALM Act. When ratified by the Senate and signed by the President, the Act will direct the FCC to enforce provisions of the Advanced Television Systems Committee’s A/85 Recommended Practice. A/85 explains new methods for measuring and maintaining consistent television loudness. Member of our distinguished panel were all part of the ATSC subcommittee that worked for two years to develop this important new standard. The panel will explain the important elements of A/85 and how to use it. Implications of the new recommended practice are far-reaching, affecting everyone from people working in Production/Post-Production, through to Broadcast and other Distribution. Following his opening presentations, meeting coordinator Lon Neumann will moderate a panel discussion that promises to be lively, and which probably will extend to include other related topics, such as the implications for the emerging Mobile/Handheld market. Our panel: Jim Starzynski, NBC, Principal Engineer, Chief Audio Architect, Advanced Technology. Tomlinson Holman, Professor, USC School of Cinematic Arts and Viterbi School of Engineering. Jeff Riedmiller, Dolby, Director, Sound Platform Group. Rich Friedel, Fox Networks, EVP/General Manager, Engineering and Operations.

[sailor]

Would be great to see this, but not realistic for us East Coasters. Any chance it could be shot and/or recorded for a podcast like that "What Happened to my Mix" lecture?

[Henchman]

Do I have to be a member?
I would love to go.

[dr.sound]

Originally Posted by Henchman

Do I have to be a member?
I would love to go.

No, You do not need to be a member.
See you there.
As for any recordings I don't know the answer. I'll ask after it is over.

[philper]

Originally Posted by dr.sound

No, You do not need to be a member.
See you there.
As for any recordings I don't know the answer. I'll ask after it is over.

Please, someone record this for us out of towners.

Philip Perkins

[danijel]

Would love to see this too.... Sounds like an epic panel

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by dr.sound

No, You do not need to be a member.
See you there.
As for any recordings I don't know the answer. I'll ask after it is over.

Good. I have a bone to pick with this nonsense.
I'm sick and tired if these limits being imposed on us, yet since thus started a few years ago, the main problem hasn't been addressed. The commercials.

[nathand]

Originally Posted by Henchman

Good. I have a bone to pick with this nonsense.
I'm sick and tired if these limits being imposed on us, yet since thus started a few years ago, the main problem hasn't been addressed. The commercials.

Wait a second Mark,

We've been at -24 LKFS +/- 2 for at least a year. Bet you can't say the same for some of the Fringe cold opens

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by nathand

Wait a second Mark,

We've been at -24 LKFS +/- 2 for at least a year. Bet you can't say the same for some of the Fringe cold opens

Actually that spec came into play at the 2nd episode this s eason.. and its measured per act. Not the entire show.

How come I'm still reaching for the remote during commercials then?

[nathand]

Originally Posted by Henchman

How come I'm still reaching for the remote during commercials then?

I never claimed I mixed them all.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by nathand

I never claimed I mixed them all.

I didn't say it was ALL your fault :-)

[Kuba_Pietrzak]

I second to Danijel - please tape it! It would be great to see it.

It is really hard to fly half of the planet for such an event these days.

regards,
Kuba

[Dallas Taylor]

darn! I'll be in LA a day late!

--

Surely, in a room full of audio people, someone will record it

[Steven1145]

We had a similar conference a few weeks ago in France. Just as Mark says: we get loudness limits for TV shows and movie TV masters, but commercials are left to their own design...
It's ludicrous that everything has to conform to a loudness standard, yet the thing which usually has the most annoying loudness factor (commercials) is free to blast our ears as they see fit.

[Henchman]

Well, thought I'd give some feedback on this meeting.
Hopefully one of the organizers will read this.
first off, next time, can we not have the same information repeated ad nauseum by every single guest speaker?
I was extremely annoyed that I sat through a couple of hours of something that felt like deja vu every time a new speaker got up to talk.
And because if that, there was no time left to actually discuss this new standard.

I'm all fine with it, I understand that the broadcasters gave to be pro-active, but my god, what a load of hogwash.

I would like to say to the gentlemen from the networks that presented their case, that its all nice and dandy to talk about stopping people to play yoyo with the volume on the control, but start with your own frigging promo's ok?
They are STILL louder than anything else. Especially the news promo's.

So, instead of tying the hands if mixers, please, get your own frigging house in order, ok?

[dr.sound]

Mark,
I have known you for a while, but I am shocked by your comments. We are fortunate to have SMPTE here in Hollywood. They gave a seminar to educate all of us to the new standards (ATSC A-85). In a nutshell if you read and follow A-85 it will appease the networks and your TV shows should sound reasonably close to what you mixed.
Those mixers who do commercials will be held to the same rules that we all will be required to match. The reason why the heads of the networks (NBC and Fox) who spoke and sounded to you Mark that they were repeating themselves is because both of the above networks are very similar in their delivery requirements. Considering that we
were able to go to the SMPTE meeting for FREE and hear these Engineers discuss what we need to do to meet network delivery specs, I would think that all Mixers would feel better off after attending the meeting. I for one do. Give me a target (-24 +/- 2 LKFS) that we need to hit then at least we have a chance of making it sound decent on the air.
Thank you SMPTE and ATSC.

[Henchman]

Marti, my complaint is that the same thing was repeated over and over.
And then tonight, I'm watching tv, and literally the biggest level jump was not commercials ( well maybe one or two), but the station promos.

Of they're going to be enforcing a spec, then they need to start with themselves, don't you agree? Otherwise, what's the point?

It's very frustrating.

Don't get me wrong, it was very informative, and in all honesty I don't find it that hard to hit the spec on most shows.
Bu I would have liked to have seem a chance for a discussion.

[dr.sound]

First off it's Marti.
Second, once Congress votes A-85 in then it will be law. Then it will ALL be
the same everywhere. I guess you missed that slide during the discussion!

[Henchman]

Aargh, darned autocorrect on my phone strikes again.
Yes I do know it's Marti :-)

And yes, I know it will be signed into law.
But, all I'm saying is that they're hammering us with this spec from the Networks.
and I'm fine with that.
But they need to look in-house as true own promos at this point are the main offenders.

Because they talk a good talk, but its all a bit "Do as I say, Not as I do"

[Airon]

Wow.

You folks are flippin' fortunate to have a standard everyone has to abide by finally be in the cards. We have specs too in Germany but they're not so great.

If we can't get a video or audio recording of the meet, we can still download the A/85 document here: A/85

Reading it now.

[dr.sound]

Originally Posted by Airon

Wow.

You folks are flippin' fortunate to have a standard everyone has to abide by finally be in the cards. We have specs too in Germany but they're not so great.

If we can't get a video or audio recording of the meet, we can still download the A/85 document here: A/85

Reading it now.

Yes we are fortunate.
The A-85 is also in my sticky here:
NEW UPDATED Room Calibration for Film and TV Post - Avid Audio Forums

[Henchman]

The big advantage to all this is thatin the future we won't have to worry about spec sheets
Plus it will do away with some of the really stupid - 10 specs that some broadcasters have.

[Airon]

I'm hoping this will spread, especially because of the commercials.

[Dallas Taylor]

Whoa.. I'm getting deja vu from the DUC

--

So, no public recording/slides? Seems like great info. PDF is great, but it's always more helpful to hear someone explain it.

[Jfriah]

Aw, c'mon... you're gonna make me read that entire PDF?

Sigh...


And, Mark...the station promos are probably done internally.
'nuff said.

Specs?
My speakers were 'this' loud!
(and only one of them works normally, but...)


Jeff

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by Jfriah

And, Mark...the station promos are probably done internally.
'nuff said.


Jeff

Which is exactly one of my beefs with the broadcasters presenting the spec.

[soundboy]

I look at the LM100 and the 737 as job security. If some newby slams a mix against brick wall limiters, it's gonna sound like crap. Hopefully, the ability to produce a good mix with these limits, counts for something.

[soundfx]

When you guys are referring to "station promos", do you mean network promos for shows and packaging, such as those for for NBC, CBS, FOX, Disney, TNT, that sort of thing, etc.?

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by soundfx

When you guys are referring to "station promos", do you mean network promos for shows and packaging, such as those for for NBC, CBS, FOX, Disney, TNT, that sort of thing, etc.?

Yes.

[cjguitar]

Originally Posted by Airon

Wow.

You folks are flippin' fortunate to have a standard everyone has to abide by finally be in the cards. We have specs too in Germany but they're not so great.

If we can't get a video or audio recording of the meet, we can still download the A/85 document here: A/85

Reading it now.

72 pages for a spec? Who has time to read that? I'm working, leave me alone…