Recording in combat

[picklecakelake]

Hi guys,

First post here. First of all thanks for all the info on this forum.
I've found a lot of useful information here, great job!
I've never felt the need to post untill now.

I' ve been asked to go to Afghanistan, embedded with the US troops, to record sound for a documentary. The director (he films , no video, on 16mm) and I will join the US and Afghan troops on a mission to search for Taliban and make a report about the outposts of the US army. This will be a small part of a full documentary about Afghanistan and the Afghan people.

Now I'have recorded sound before in difficult conditions but this is way different,
Although I'm very aware of the risks involved and the director went to Afghanistan many times before I've never been to a war zone and find it difficult to estimate the conditions.
I haven't confirmed to the director yet if I'm going to join him or not, I'm just considering it right now.

So my questions to you guys are;

*Do any of you have any experience with this kind of situation?
Not only recording in combat but also recording in deserted environments with lots of sand, mountains and heat and with very very basic infrastructure under difficult circumstances?
* I' have to try and record the sound as good as possible: I have to record dialogue but the background is just as important.
My gear needs to be very sustainable and work under every circumstances.
But it also needs to be light and easely accessible cause I have to carry it myself so every pound and every minute counts. I'm looking for a minimal setup that gives me a maximum of possibilities.


Thanks a lot!

PC

[StratSvante]

Wow, thats heavy dude!

All I can say is good luck!

[K5000]

I'm not experienced enough with microphones OR desert conditions to give advice on them, but as far as recorders goes, Sound Devices springs to mind. I think for maximum durability you can get them with a solid state drive. Those babies are pretty rugged.

edit: some sort of head protection in case of shrapnel might also be recommended...

[apple-q]

Side note: Most regular insurances (equipment, health, etc.) do not cover losses or damage in areas of war.

Better check with your production what´s covered and what isn´t. Better have that in writing or use their equipment. Also check the small print in your life-insurance etc. etc.

Equipmentwise you can be sure that you be close to a power source once in a while (unless they use a fully manual film camera that can run with a wind-up spring ;-) )

Ask them how much batteries they plan for the camera and budget at least for the equivalent run-time for your batteries. After that you can be sure the camera has to re-charge too and return to some place with power.

Are you recording double-system or straight to camera?

[charles maynes]

I have not recorded in formal combat, but in some other hot desert conflict areas- the recommendations I have for you are-

gear-

Bring Sennheiser 416's and 816's or perhaps an MKH 70. Also bring backups.

Recorder- the Sound Devices 744 is pretty great. I personally would recommend recording to both SD cards and the internal drive (cards expecially if you are in vehicles or on foot in possible places of contact.

bring a minimal kit, but have backups of everything. You might also consider bringing hard-drives to do backups to that can be shipped back to your offices in the states as the shoot progresses.


personal gear- check with your POC on the DoD end to see what protective gear they can provide. You would be well advised to get the "Press" marked body armor (I cannot stress that enough). You will not be armed as to the rules the military issues, but as Michael Yon found out (and he is a former soldier) getting some training on both handguns and the M16 and AK47/74 would be a great idea- The Taliban are not going to generally know about you, and if you get in a firefight, they will be shooting at YOU. If, heaven forbid, you are in a life or death situation and have to use a weapon, it would be good if you can do so without jeopardizing those around you. War is not regular human life- so the rules of "regular" human life do not always apply. Check on the sort of stuff that deployed troops are recommended to bring- these will include things like babywipes, gold bond powder and other things to take care of your body- a personal fav of mine is AHAVA moisturizing lotion, it is really good for helping your skin recover from the elements there.

Also dont stray from your group EVER. even if your director says so. The Taliban do and will kidnap troops to use them as hostages, and even human shields. dont give them help with that. As far as that goes consider any place you travel in the general area (which includes Pakistan, Turkey and Iraq) to be hostile areas where elevated situational awareness is demanded for safety.

The single biggest threat in theatre will be IED's so all of the above can quickly become irrelevent in the event of you being involved in that.

As an embed, the troops are going to see you in the same way as carrying an extra weight room into battle, do everything you can to be in shape, and ready to go always. The physical demands for foot patrol work are beyond your wildest dreams so getting used to carrying 60 or more pounds on hikes out to 10 miles is what you need to be prepared for. Also remember that due to elevation of Afghanistan the oxygen amounts will likely be much less than you are used to.

I know that might sound intense, but it is what it is.

added - if you need more info I might be able to get you in touch with some combat photographers- let me know via pm.

[picklecakelake]

Thanks a lot Charles and others, some great advice here!

First of all, insurance is taken care of by production.
A very large part of the production budget for this docu consits of insurance.

Helmet and body armour are mandotory, but they're pretty heavy and reduce your ability to move around freely. Imagine booming a scene while dressed like a turtle!

Gearwise:

I'm recording straight to harddisc, its not possible to record to camera or to record timecode on the camera. So for sync we have to depend on a slate,
is there like a pocketsize version of a slate available cause it will be difficult moving around with a full size slate.

For the recorder I would choose the Sound Devices 744,
I'm also thinking of a way to bypass the mixer to reduce weight while hiking but I find adjusting levels on the 744 not very convenient.

Mics: first thought was indeed a reliable allround shotgun like 416 or 70.
Of course I like the sound of an CMIT-5U & others but they 're not suitable for this kind of task.
I really want to make stereo recordings as well cause this is a docu with a film feature edge and it will be playing in theatres.
Just think of the sounds of rocket strikes and mortar reverbing through the hills, i know it sounds (a bit, euhm a lot) crazy but the sounddesigner in me wants those things in stereo. I often record with a schoeps MS set up but don't know its
appropiate for this situation. Suggestions are welcome!
Wondering if lavs are an option here, guess you can't just shout in the middle of action: wait guys, hold right there, gotta mic you first!

I am WELL aware of the current situation in Afghanistan and the potential danger involved. My director has been working as a freelance war photographer in Afghanistan (he already worked as an embed) and in the central asian region. His experiences are the most reliable info I can wish for but still I' m doubting if I want to do this job cause I don't know how I will react in a real combat situation. I know it will be physically and mentally very very hard, if i'm going I'm planning to workout like hell. I know it's a total different situation but I' ve hiked in the mountains before with 60+ bags and have cycled through France and Spain with 60 pounds & more of equipement.

As far as other combat photographers I'v read a lot by and saw the vids of John D McHugh wich were very interesting. If you know of others, don't hesitate to let me know.

Thanks a lot,


PC

[leeg1970]

A friend / sound recordist of mine (now stopped as he lost hearing in one ear) won a bafta for recording in Afghanistan. PM me and I'll pass you his details for some advice.

LEE G

Originally Posted by picklecakelake

Hi guys,

First post here. First of all thanks for all the info on this forum.
I've found a lot of useful information here, great job!
I've never felt the need to post untill now.

I' ve been asked to go to Afghanistan, embedded with the US troops, to record sound for a documentary. The director (he films , no video, on 16mm) and I will join the US and Afghan troops on a mission to search for Taliban and make a report about the outposts of the US army. This will be a small part of a full documentary about Afghanistan and the Afghan people.

Now I'have recorded sound before in difficult conditions but this is way different,
Although I'm very aware of the risks involved and the director went to Afghanistan many times before I've never been to a war zone and find it difficult to estimate the conditions.
I haven't confirmed to the director yet if I'm going to join him or not, I'm just considering it right now.

So my questions to you guys are;

*Do any of you have any experience with this kind of situation?
Not only recording in combat but also recording in deserted environments with lots of sand, mountains and heat and with very very basic infrastructure under difficult circumstances?
* I' have to try and record the sound as good as possible: I have to record dialogue but the background is just as important.
My gear needs to be very sustainable and work under every circumstances.
But it also needs to be light and easely accessible cause I have to carry it myself so every pound and every minute counts. I'm looking for a minimal setup that gives me a maximum of possibilities.


Thanks a lot!

PC

[philper]

Originally Posted by picklecakelake

Thanks a lot Charles and others, some great advice here!

First of all, insurance is taken care of by production.
A very large part of the production budget for this docu consits of insurance.

Helmet and body armour are mandotory, but they're pretty heavy and reduce your ability to move around freely. Imagine booming a scene while dressed like a turtle!

Gearwise:

I'm recording straight to harddisc, its not possible to record to camera or to record timecode on the camera. So for sync we have to depend on a slate,
is there like a pocketsize version of a slate available cause it will be difficult moving around with a full size slate.

For the recorder I would choose the Sound Devices 744,
I'm also thinking of a way to bypass the mixer to reduce weight while hiking but I find adjusting levels on the 744 not very convenient.

Mics: first thought was indeed a reliable allround shotgun like 416 or 70.
Of course I like the sound of an CMIT-5U & others but they 're not suitable for this kind of task.
I really want to make stereo recordings as well cause this is a docu with a film feature edge and it will be playing in theatres.
Just think of the sounds of rocket strikes and mortar reverbing through the hills, i know it sounds (a bit, euhm a lot) crazy but the sounddesigner in me wants those things in stereo. I often record with a schoeps MS set up but don't know its
appropiate for this situation. Suggestions are welcome!
Wondering if lavs are an option here, guess you can't just shout in the middle of action: wait guys, hold right there, gotta mic you first!

I am WELL aware of the current situation in Afghanistan and the potential danger involved. My director has been working as a freelance war photographer in Afghanistan (he already worked as an embed) and in the central asian region. His experiences are the most reliable info I can wish for but still I' m doubting if I want to do this job cause I don't know how I will react in a real combat situation. I know it will be physically and mentally very very hard, if i'm going I'm planning to workout like hell. I know it's a total different situation but I' ve hiked in the mountains before with 60+ bags and have cycled through France and Spain with 60 pounds & more of equipement.

As far as other combat photographers I'v read a lot by and saw the vids of John D McHugh wich were very interesting. If you know of others, don't hesitate to let me know.

Thanks a lot,


PC

A small piece of advice--forget about stereo. Just getting any usable mono dialog at all is going to be incredibly difficult, and that dialog is important for the content, the story of the film you are making. You need the toughest, most directional boom mic you can get. Stereo explosions etc can be done in post--you are there to get the people--the words to the story. RE: the 744T: I doubt you'll have much opportunity to use 4 tracks of recording. I'd look into a 702T--lighter, no moving parts, consumes batteries more slowly, with some good sized CF cards that will last you a whole day (8 or 16 GB). Another suggestion is some way of slating the camera that doesn't make any noise--an old fashioned bloop light etc (a small light the cam sees and a beep only your recorder hears). If your shooter is using a late model Aaton this would be a great situation for "Aaton" code w/ or w/o the Origine C--then no slating at all.....camera and recorder jam synced once a day.

Also, check in at http://www.jwsound.net/SMF/, this forum is really for audio post, JWSound is location sound people of all stripes.

Be careful.

Philip Perkins

[picklecakelake]

Originally Posted by leeg1970

A friend / sound recordist of mine (now stopped as he lost hearing in one ear) won a bafta for recording in Afghanistan. PM me and I'll pass you his details for some advice.

LEE G

Thanks Lee, I will PM you!

Originally Posted by philper

A small piece of advice--forget about stereo. Just getting any usable mono dialog at all is going to be incredibly difficult, and that dialog is important for the content, the story of the film you are making. You need the toughest, most directional boom mic you can get. Stereo explosions etc can be done in post--you are there to get the people--the words to the story. RE: the 744T: I doubt you'll have much opportunity to use 4 tracks of recording. I'd look into a 702T--lighter, no moving parts, consumes batteries more slowly, with some good sized CF cards that will last you a whole day (8 or 16 GB). Another suggestion is some way of slating the camera that doesn't make any noise--an old fashioned bloop light etc (a small light the cam sees and a beep only your recorder hears). If your shooter is using a late model Aaton this would be a great situation for "Aaton" code w/ or w/o the Origine C--then no slating at all.....camera and recorder jam synced once a day.

Also, check in at The Discussion Group @ jwsound.net - Index, this forum is really for audio post, JWSound is location sound people of all stripes.

Be careful.

Philip Perkins

Thanks a lot Philip, great advice I will definitely consider!

[Rick Sanchez]

Best of luck..stay safe, travel as lightly as you can and thank the troops every day.

[renec]

regarding the slate:

I have and use an iphone app that slates very well. The only problem is that sometimes my little iphone speaker is not loud enough to overcome the ambient noise in a crowded bar or other such environment. There are several such apps in the app store.





regarding stereo equipment:

If you need a superlight stereo rig you can consider the zoom h4n or the sony pcm-d50. I own both and love what they are capable of out in the field. My pcm-d50 just about never leaves my hip, and some of my best and most useful indoor and outdoor ambient recordings have come from it.

upsides:
-entire rig fits in your pocket (this is significant)
-mics and pres are worthy of doc production
-entirely self-contained - no moving parts
-AA battery powered
-tripod mountable
-relatively inexpensive

PCM D50 upsides
-ridiculously long battery life
-swivel mics for super wide ambiances or XY for tighter ambiances
-quality build

H4n upsides
-XLR inputs and phantom power (can be used for spot aquisition with boom mic, etc)


downsides:
-all eggs in one basket with these devices (if it gets crushed you lost your stereo mics, preamps, and recording device)
-mics are very sensitive to wind noise
-difficult to protect mics from winds above 10-15 mph (can't mount in a blimp very easily)
-built in mics are OK but not optimal for dialogue, foly, etc.

PCM D50 downsides:
-no XLR inputs or phantom power

H4n downsides:
-poor battery life

[picklecakelake]

Originally Posted by renec

regarding the slate:

I have and use an iphone app that slates very well. The only problem is that sometimes my little iphone speaker is not loud enough to overcome the ambient noise in a crowded bar or other such environment. There are several such apps in the app store.





regarding stereo equipment:

If you need a superlight stereo rig you can consider the zoom h4n or the sony pcm-d50. I own both and love what they are capable of out in the field. My pcm-d50 just about never leaves my hip, and some of my best and most useful indoor and outdoor ambient recordings have come from it.

upsides:
-entire rig fits in your pocket (this is significant)
-mics and pres are worthy of doc production
-entirely self-contained - no moving parts
-AA battery powered
-tripod mountable
-relatively inexpensive

PCM D50 upsides
-ridiculously long battery life
-swivel mics for super wide ambiances or XY for tighter ambiances
-quality build

H4n upsides
-XLR inputs and phantom power (can be used for spot aquisition with boom mic, etc)


downsides:
-all eggs in one basket with these devices (if it gets crushed you lost your stereo mics, preamps, and recording device)
-mics are very sensitive to wind noise
-difficult to protect mics from winds above 10-15 mph (can't mount in a blimp very easily)
-built in mics are OK but not optimal for dialogue, foly, etc.

PCM D50 downsides:
-no XLR inputs or phantom power

H4n downsides:
-poor battery life

Thanks for your advice,

I've worked with the H4n in the past before and got some good background recordings out of it but I wonder if it's a match for those particular circumstances where literally everything gets buried under a layer of sand/dust and with strong winds up the mountains.
But nevertheless it will save a big deal of space and weight & its very easy to handle.

[Andrew Mottl]

Sounds like a tough production, very challenging!

Just one thought - you had mentioned stereo. You might want to consider a MKH418. Same size as the 416, pretty much the same weight, same sound but MS.

[JeromeOD]

Hey, it's my first post here but it might as well be helpful! I hope, anyway.


This is an extremely dangerous operation, obviously. But not only to your life - my post is inspired by Lee's friend, mentioned earlier, who lost half his hearing and thus his career by recording in a war zone. You don't want this to happen to you. I think you should consider VERY seriously, wearing 24/7 hearing protection. One bomb going off in your vicinity could kill your career. If it were me going in, I would be looking very closely at MSA Sordin earpro devices. The better models provide active hearing (they have microphones and amps on board, with limiters, for the outside world, so you can hear what's going on but not be deafened by it. They also are available with auxuliary audio inputs so you can still monitor your recording through them. Mil-Spec Sordins are the headset of choice for tank crews, and are also specifically designed to go under the standard MICH combat helmet. Have a look into it, and BE CAREFUL!

[cananball]

Originally Posted by picklecakelake

Although I'm very aware of the risks involved and the director went to Afghanistan many times before I've never been to a war zone and find it difficult to estimate the conditions.
I haven't confirmed to the director yet if I'm going to join him or not, I'm just considering it right now.

Did you see Ironman? If you can use your kit to build an armor suit you will be set.

Best of luck.

[denniskersten]

For syncing I'd use a good old clap on the boom, nothing more

[picklecakelake]

Originally Posted by philper

Also, check in at The Discussion Group @ jwsound.net - Index, this forum is really for audio post, JWSound is location sound people of all stripes.

Be careful.

Philip Perkins

Can't seem to register on the jwsoundforum, the validation letters in registration form won't appear in my browser

Originally Posted by JeromeOD

Hey, it's my first post here but it might as well be helpful! I hope, anyway.


This is an extremely dangerous operation, obviously. But not only to your life - my post is inspired by Lee's friend, mentioned earlier, who lost half his hearing and thus his career by recording in a war zone. You don't want this to happen to you. I think you should consider VERY seriously, wearing 24/7 hearing protection. One bomb going off in your vicinity could kill your career. If it were me going in, I would be looking very closely at MSA Sordin earpro devices. The better models provide active hearing (they have microphones and amps on board, with limiters, for the outside world, so you can hear what's going on but not be deafened by it. They also are available with auxuliary audio inputs so you can still monitor your recording through them. Mil-Spec Sordins are the headset of choice for tank crews, and are also specifically designed to go under the standard MICH combat helmet. Have a look into it, and BE CAREFUL!

Thanks, great advice! I will definitely get me a pair of MSA Sordin headphones!

[The Peschinator]

Bring something that you can carry in a backpack - That can exist in a backpack, as you may be moving quickly without warning. Also, learn how to use a rifle. Happy hunting!

[huub]

Hmmm....

I think war is a situation generally to be avoided like hell..
I personally would not voluntarily go to a war area... ever...
Like ever ever ever..
Especially not for work..
I've been to strange places for work, but war areas I would refuse..

Anyway, just sharing my opinion, for what it's worth..

[K5000]

The talk about hearing protection made me realize one important point - as you know monitoring your audio will greatly reduce your ability to hear positionally. Which is another risk factor should the shit start hitting the fan.

[JeromeOD]

The sordins I mention feature stereo "outside world" microphones which you can mix into the ear as much as you need, so . This will obviously be a compromise with monitoring the audio, but in situations like this, compromise and safety must be paramount.

[picklecakelake]

Originally Posted by huub

Hmmm....

I think war is a situation generally to be avoided like hell..
I personally would not voluntarily go to a war area... ever...
Like ever ever ever..
Especially not for work..
I've been to strange places for work, but war areas I would refuse..

Anyway, just sharing my opinion, for what it's worth..

I know what you're saying but on the other hand, this work gives me the opportunity to go places I normaly wouldn't be able to go to.
I don't like war either but the best way to experience a war is as media,
I definitely wouldn't want to experience war as soldier or civilian.
And despite the war Afghanistan is a beautiful & fascinating country
I've always wanted to travel to,I know this sounds strange but this might just be the safest way to do it.
Yeah, war is never pretty and I doubt this war is gonna solve anything in
this region but that's a discussion I'm not gonna start here.

[cjguitar]

Here's an interesting article on a project I'm doing post for that was shot in Afghanistan. It's certainly not the same situation you're looking at getting into, as this is a scripted film, and doesn't involve being embedded with the military, but did offer some of the same challenges, and was dangerous regardless:

Sound Man Relates Afghanistan Dangers

[picklecakelake]

Originally Posted by cjguitar

Here's an interesting article on a project I'm doing post for that was shot in Afghanistan. It's certainly not the same situation you're looking at getting into, as this is a scripted film, and doesn't involve being embedded with the military, but did offer some of the same challenges, and was dangerous regardless:

Sound Man Relates Afghanistan Dangers

Thanks great article!

How did those recordings turn out?

I'm really interested in that quad mic kit of Schoeps and the Sanken Cs-3,
I don't have any experience with that mic & I'm pretty curious about it.

My rig is gonna be pretty similar to Jons but a lot more basic.
(Sounddevices, Dpa & Sanken lav mics)
For practical reasons i need to boom in MS.
I'm gonna use a 416 but I'm still looking for a good figure of 8 to accompany the 416, normaly I would use a mkh 30 but that's gonna be to heavy to boom.

greetz,

PC

[sunnysound]

Originally Posted by picklecakelake

For practical reasons i need to boom in MS.
I'm gonna use a 416 but I'm still looking for a good figure of 8 to accompany the 416, normaly I would use a mkh 30 but that's gonna be to heavy to boom.

greetz,

PC

When I was looking for a Stereo Shotgun for SFX work, and before I got my Sanken CSS-5, I demoed an Ambient Emesser clip-on fig-8, designed to clip on your 416 (or Rode NTG-3 in my case) inside the blimp to add M/S recording. This is the MkII version of the Emesser. A little too noisy for the dedicated SFX / Ambience work I do, but I would think it was perfect for your application. You get a little tail-set to a 5-pin XLR to go on the end of your boom. Id adds practically no weight to the boom. The only problem I could see is it forces you to use a full-size hollow windshield rather than a Softie, which you might otherwise choose for the weight saving. You can clip it onto another cardioid or even omni center mic for a wider stereo image, and it takes up negligible shipping space.

It would be a good idea if you could arrange an on-camera mic as well at least for Patrols - if the 16mm doesn't do single-system, you might be able to kit up the cameraman with something light like a smaller Rode shotgun feeding wireless back to the second channel on your recorder. You may well get separated from your cameraman by enough to prevent you from covering what he is filming. The same radio kit could be used with a lav for safer set-ups. Even just taping the lav (in a baby windjammer) to the cameraman's helmet or something might give you useful coverage in that situation. The operators you are with will probably want you and the cameraman to walk single-file behind one of them when out on unfamiliar ground (due to mines and IEDs) - making booming rather difficult.

[kk@jamsync.com]

Be careful out there!

[charles maynes]

this is a pretty good rundown of some issues you might face-


Ask a Pro: How to Shoot (and Not Get Shot) In a War Zone - War zone photography - Gizmodo

[picklecakelake]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

this is a pretty good rundown of some issues you might face-


Ask a Pro: How to Shoot (and Not Get Shot) In a War Zone - War zone photography - Gizmodo

Thank you, Charles.

[dmclondon]

You must do a HEFAT course before you go.
(Hostile Environment & First Aid Training)

And lots more info at:
myRisks Home - Journalism Safety Guide

[GuySonic]

My company often supplies documentary audio recording gear for the conditions you are facing. Smallest, most durable, and highest quality recording is two piece windscreen headband mic + Sony PCM-M10 flash deck. Because of likely being around gunfire and loud vehicles, suggest DSM-6S/L model inside WHB/N windscreen headband that is wind, dust, rain resistant.
This is mic without WHB/N

This is mic inside headworn windscreen headband.

This mic system has been in high mountain climbing ambient, rainforests, deserts, Siberia, and just about anywhere people go without problems.

Recordings done with this mic found at: Sonic Studios MP3 Page 1 with Ambient Stereo-Surround Composer, Nature Sounds, Musicology Recordings