Struggling with dialogue equalization and levels

[gonza]

Hello,
I'm working on my first two student films and Like any beginner i'm facing some problems.
We had to ADR all the lines on both movies but now i'm struggling to get a natural dialogue sound.
One of the movies is mainly dialogue between two actors walking in a forest. I've applied the altiverb forest patch to both voices and i cut everything below 150 Hz in both voices. Since the background had a lot of hiss i had to apply a Low Pass Filter at 7KHz, but the voices still not sound like if they were recorded in the forest, they still sound like recorded in the studio. Can anybody help me with some eq tips for voices recorded outside???
Cheers

[Enos]

Get a decent monitor, an amp and a playback device and then find yourself a little forest away from traffic and unwanted noises. Now play your ADR and record it back into your rig. Some call it "worldizing"...

This might not be an option but if it is...it is definitely the best option

[Smallbudgetguru]

don't forget to replace the room tone from the production. Find some in the handles of your location dialogue. Use the strip silence feature to make yourself some nice tone. Use that to blend the ADR once its been worldized. Also I wouldn't roll off so much low end unless the camera is far from the subject.

[Henchman]

Where are you located?
I'm sure you could find a local slutz member with experience to give you a hand in person.

[Bill@AudioVision]

You might also want to add some 'dirt' to the track. That's what I call the subtle changes in level and hi-end EQ that naturally happens as people walk and talk. Think boom mic that is moving a bit to grab each voice.
Also your ADR setup should be a hyper-cardioid or short shotgun mic, in a totally dead room. If not, you're be fighting early reflections and nothing will get the track to work well as an exterior. The low end roll-off is the right idea, but I've never added any kind reverb or ambiance construction to the voice. Get a good forest FX bed put together and lay the voice track on top.
Don't forget foot steps, either.
Good luck!

[danijel]

You did search for 'outside' and 'ADR', right?

ADR for outdoors
Making ADR tracks sound like they're outside.
Vocal post effects for outside spaces - give up the bootie!

Welcome to GS

[Uncle Bob]

I hate to ask the obvious, but have you done Foley? Without footsteps, clothing, etc. all you have are voices and ambience/BG; the rest of "reality" is not there to convince the ears that it is happening the way you see it.

Also, you should be dropping volume and cutting a little in the way of highs and mids when they turn their heads, etc. It needs to be subtle, but is the way we hear in real life.

Also, play with all of the parameters of Altiverb some more. Ands just because it says "Forest" doesn't necessarily mean it's the right reverb; trust your ears, not the preset labels.

[jahtao]

I seem to remember this IR sounding better than altiverb's forest (i could be wrong tho)
Impulse responses

you'll need atmos and foley

and try a bit of very short delay mixed in, maybe 30ms, just a tiny bit. helps push it back it a bit

[dr.sound]

While we all feel software will cure all, for good ADR you need
"The 4 P's:
"Pitch:
You need the Actors to get their pitch correctly when performing in an ADR Stage. When Actors are in front of a crew and the camera they typically have a higher pitched voice because the are the focus of the moment. Get their pitch correct by directing them on the ADR stage

Performance
This is the area where you see if you have a seasoned Pro. If the Actor can recreate his/her performance in a room while looking at a screen and matching the cadence of the original. You would be surprised how may can't repeat their performance.

Placement
This is how and where you place the mic to duplicate the original recording. Was it boomed or is it a lav? How far away was the mic?

Placement
This is the placement of the lines once recorded back into the mix session making sure they are matched for sync on the Dialog session for the Re-Recording Mixer to mix.

If you do not follow the 4P's you will have ADR that sounds or looks wrong.
If you follow the 4 P's you will have a much better chance of the ADR blending into the soundtrack and being invisible to the audience.
Good Luck.

[Sonsey@mac.com]

Originally Posted by dr.sound

While we all feel software will cure all, for good ADR you need
"The 4 P's:
"Pitch:
You need the Actors to get their pitch correctly when performing in an ADR Stage. When Actors are in front of a crew and the camera they typically have a higher pitched voice because the are the focus of the moment. Get their pitch correct by directing them on the ADR stage

Performance
This is the area where you see if you have a seasoned Pro. If the Actor can recreate his/her performance in a room while looking at a screen and matching the cadence of the original. You would be surprised how may can't repeat their performance.

Placement
This is how and where you place the mic to duplicate the original recording. Was it boomed or is it a lav? How far away was the mic?

Placement
This is the placement of the lines once recorded back into the mix session making sure they are matched for sync on the Dialog session for the Re-Recording Mixer to mix.

If you do not follow the 4P's you will have ADR that sounds or looks wrong.
If you follow the 4 P's you will have a much better chance of the ADR blending into the soundtrack and being invisible to the audience.
Good Luck.

Somebody make that a sticky... and make everyone who asks about ADR read it!

[Big Andy]

Originally Posted by dr.sound

While we all feel software will cure all, for good ADR you need
"The 4 P's:
"Pitch:
You need the Actors to get their pitch correctly when performing in an ADR Stage. When Actors are in front of a crew and the camera they typically have a higher pitched voice because the are the focus of the moment. Get their pitch correct by directing them on the ADR stage

Performance
This is the area where you see if you have a seasoned Pro. If the Actor can recreate his/her performance in a room while looking at a screen and matching the cadence of the original. You would be surprised how may can't repeat their performance.

Placement
This is how and where you place the mic to duplicate the original recording. Was it boomed or is it a lav? How far away was the mic?

Placement
This is the placement of the lines once recorded back into the mix session making sure they are matched for sync on the Dialog session for the Re-Recording Mixer to mix.

If you do not follow the 4P's you will have ADR that sounds or looks wrong.
If you follow the 4 P's you will have a much better chance of the ADR blending into the soundtrack and being invisible to the audience.
Good Luck.

Experience at it's finest!

[Jfriah]

And make it the 7 P's...
P...
Poor
Planning
Prevents
Proper
Post
Production.

Get yer t-shirts right here!

If your entire production is being ADR'd...I wouldn't worry about it 'sounding natural'. For a student production? It won't. Be cool with that and has anyone broached the subject of:

Are all the actors being recorded in the same space by the same engineer?

If not...

Oh yeah, and PERFORMANCE. I don't know how many lines I end up pitching up to try to add some kind of life to it after the fact.

If your stuff is being recorded in different spaces/studios by other engineers from wherever, ditch the sounding natural, my friend.

Get all the stuff in one location if you at all have control over that, with the same microphone(s), and YES---foley foley foley but first Performance Performance Performance. You can 'always' make lip sync work given enough time and tools. You have P.PoorPeformance and you have well-'sunk' Poop.

I've been on both sides of my fair share of ADR in the past 15 years and those listed P's are very important.

How many bar scenes have I done when the actors were not directed on set to 'speak above the music?'

How many ADR lines have I dealt with where the actors were not directed to match anything but sync in terms of their deliver and gave 2 takes (yay! 1 extra one!) of flat delivery, sometimes stressing words improperly? But hey, the sync worked.

How many times have I had actors who just hate every second of ADR and, therefore, just won't give it any effort?

(see Psychology degree...)

Good luck! Listen to the folks here, everyone has mucho experience. ADR is a necessary evil.

Get good recordings with some effort from the actors in their delivery and then get ready to have fun with reverb and foley.

Jeff

p.s. sorry for going overboard when the stuff has already been recorded but: future reference.

[mikevarela]

I remember my first attempts at doing this same thing, though I was trying to match indoor Dx against ADR. had a hell of a time with it.

Best 1st case is of course to get the same mic's used in production. you could rent them for a day or two, they're not that expensive.

if you can't, then try and at least match the diaphragm size with a mic you have, make sure it's cardioid.

The biggest thing you can do besides coach performance, and this is what got me the first time, was put some space between the mic and the subject. My first project was recorded up close like a standard VO. with roll-offs and reverb, it still sounded like a studio track.

Now I always record dual mono, one in front and one approximating the distance from the shot, usually from 45 degres up and a little to the side.

I usually go with the farther mic as the natural roll-off of the room gives me a natural sounding recording. many adr recordists listen to the shot and mimic placement in lieu of eq tricks. if you can get a great take that sounds like the original, then it makes your life so much easier.