Film editor's pre sound edit confuses me

[showstopper168]

Hi everyone,
It's me Will again, the sound editing/mixing novice. I got an OMF session yesterday with a pre-sound edited file from the film editor. He has all the dialogue tracks duplicated or even triplicated because he though that volume was too low. Each dialogue track's meter was bouncing around -20 dbfs, so should I just get rid of or mute the duplicated tracks that the film editor made? But too be honest, the dialogue track does sound really low compare to the other films although it is bouncing around -20 dbfs. Is there anyway I can do?

Thanks guys for the advises and comments in advance..sorry about all the newbie questions, but I do really love to learn the right step to do things! Thanks again

[scooptraynor]

-20 sounds about right, I noticed you had posted in another thread as well, did you get the link to read this: NEW UPDATED Room Calibration for Film and TV Post - Digi User Conference

If not, do!

[georgia]

make sure they are "duplicated" tracks and not 4 tracks of audio that are from different mics around the set. If they are duplicated, i'm afraid for you. sounds like the picture editor is also new to the game. apparently the editor hasn't learned where the audio gain "button" is located...

cheers
geo

[Max Holland]

Originally Posted by georgia

make sure they are "duplicated" tracks and not 4 tracks of audio that are from different mics around the set. If they are duplicated, i'm afraid for you. sounds like the picture editor is also new to the game. apparently the editor hasn't learned where the audio gain "button" is located...

cheers
geo

I know editors who have been in the game for 20 years who still do this...


doesnt make it right...

[Fajita]

yeah, why turn down the temp music, when you can double or triple the VO tracks!

[Frank S.]

I get OMF/AAF files like this ALL THE TIME. It's aggravating and causes a lot more track organization than is necessary. Sorry man...sounds like you get the fun job of listening to each clip to see if they really are duplicates. You can scan the clip names (if the editor bothered) and that will help speed it up, but you have to be careful.

[Brad S.]

Solo the dialog tracks and reverse the phase on every other dialog track. In Pro Tools you can do this with a 1 band Digi EQ plug-in. As long as the pan and volume automation are the same, if the tracks really are duplicates you should hear… nothing. You have to have one region on a non phased track and the other on a phased track and there have to be even numbers of regions. For example if there are 2 non phase adjusted tracks and one phase adjusted this process won't work because there will be an uneven gain balance.

[showstopper168]

Originally Posted by scooptraynor

-20 sounds about right, I noticed you had posted in another thread as well, did you get the link to read this: NEW UPDATED Room Calibration for Film and TV Post - Digi User Conference

If not, do!

Yes! I am in the process of reading all those great info.

By the way, thanks for the all the comments and advises guys! and Brad for the great trick!

Anyway, so -20 db seems to be the regular dialog level, but it seems kind of low to me (compare to the project that I had got involve and the other films)....is it right for the me to gain it up (maybe 7 to 8 db louder) or there is an other way to get around?

[Smallbudgetguru]

Originally Posted by showstopper168

Anyway, so -20 db seems to be the regular dialog level, but it seems kind of low to me (compare to the project that I had got involve and the other films)....is it right for the me to gain it up (maybe 7 to 8 db louder) or there is an other way to get around?

No, calibrate properly. Dialogue mixed where your ears currently "think" it should be will blow your audience's heads off.

+1 for phase flipping to find same content tracks! Read this in John's book and I do this all the time now esp since video editors refuse to learn new tricks!

[Etch-A-Sketch]

Originally Posted by showstopper168

Yes! I am in the process of reading all those great info.

By the way, thanks for the all the comments and advises guys! and Brad for the great trick!

Anyway, so -20 db seems to be the regular dialog level, but it seems kind of low to me (compare to the project that I had got involve and the other films)....is it right for the me to gain it up (maybe 7 to 8 db louder) or there is an other way to get around?

Actually average levels for dialogue usually land between -31dB to -23dB with PEAK levels jumping anywhere from -20dB to maybe -12dB.

If your peak levels are hitting around -20dB then it sounds about right.

If you aren't in a properly calibrated room, don't mess with the level. You'll just be adding twice the work for the re-recording mixer that will have to undo and redo all your volume adjustments.

[georgia]

dialogue at -12 is probably a yelling match between the picture editor and the sound designer..... or maybe the mixer and director....



cheers
geo

[philper]

Doubling tracks is an old trick used mostly by editors who started some time ago on old Avid systems. If they received under-recorded production dialog (a very common production sound mistake) they had only a very limited ability to raise the gain of that clip enough that it would play with all their other audio, so they would double/triple/quadruple track the same clip to get the volume up. If you are sure that those tracks are not the same dialog recorded with a different mic (boom vs lav, or the lav of someone else in the scene who isn't speaking at that moment), you can park those clips out of the way some where (we almost never throw anything away completely...you never know) and just gain up one of the clips to work in your project. It is a bad idea to carry the "doubled" clip thing forward through audio post, it will make trouble for you in many ways, esp at the final mix.

Philip Perkins

[Fajita]

Originally Posted by georgia

dialogue at -12 is probably a yelling match between the picture editor and the sound designer..... or maybe the mixer and director....



cheers
geo

thumbsup

[charles maynes]

the stacking of clips is old school- be lucky the insanity stops there- because it rarely does....


Be nice to your picture editor- he is several flights above sound in the pecking order.

[Uncle Bob]

Just a "for fun" story though I was very, make that extremely, angry at the time.

I did the production sound and audio post for a short produced for the Midnite Madness Film Festival. Sound was direct to camera (I boomed a cardioid mic and there was a stationary shotgun mic to grab live Foley - long story...) and lavs to a DAT. When I got the project from the editor - with 48 hours until the submission deadline - he had deleted all of the audio files except for the stationary shotgun mic which was extremely roomy and low volume except for the Foley. "Well, I needed the disk space and since that track sounded all the same I figured that was the one you wanted." Some editors should never be allowed near the audio...

[bloodyh]

Haaa haaa Uncle Bob... man I have this tendency not to trust anybody and I can't help myself to be supervising all they do. It's just not acceptable that people rid your work not only impairing all the project downstream but just rendering passionate and paid workforce wasted. I will never trust anyone