best way to dip stems

[cananball]

How do you guys dip your stems for voiceover or dialog? I tend to use side chain compression fed from the VO to automatically attenuate the volume of my music and sfx stems. To me its the easiest, fastest way to get consistent results. When you set the compressor just right, the stems fit like puzzle pieces. If you solo a sidechain compressed stem, it may sound extreme, but in context of the mix, it sounds great.

Does anybody strictly automate the levels for the stems to achieve dip and if so, why? To me this seems tedious and difficult to get consistency. When s/c compressing, set the attack and release properly and all of your gain changes "breath" perfectly and the levels dip in the same proportion as the VO's rise.

Curious to see what everyones doing. Thanks!

[Henchman]

Faders.
Gives me the control I like.

[Fajita]

I use a combination of the two

[nathand]

Dippers are definitely a powerful tool if you're looking for that sound.

One downside for show mixers working this way would be that it makes laying off dipped and un-dipped stems in a single pass impossible.

[nathand]

Originally Posted by Fajita

I use a combination of the two

I would have thought with your Discovery pedigree you would have stayed away from side-chains. (re: my comment above)

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by nathand

One downside for show mixers working this way would be that it makes laying off dipped and un-dipped stems in a single pass impossible.

Yep.
And I hate running multiple passes.

[cananball]

Originally Posted by nathand

Dippers are definitely a powerful tool if you're looking for that sound.

One downside for show mixers working this way would be that it makes laying off dipped and un-dipped stems in a single pass impossible.

unless you bounce the one of the stems first, then you can layback everything in one pass, right?

[Jfriah]

Combination. Usually based on timeframes, sidechains. Perhaps with a bit of delay-compensation ahead-looking trickery.

Then 'manual level adjustment' when I need to.

Jeff

[FullFrequency]

Fader every time without fail for me. It means I can build things in a certain way... if I want to hit a cue hard, then I can hit it hard, but if I want to slide in smoothly then I can do that too - as Henchman said... control

Think it's a horses for courses thing though for sure

[philper]

I don't like the sound of the sidechain autoduck thing at all, at least as I've been able to set it up. I want to float the music under the VO etc, since often the music I get is not consistent in level from moment to moment (as in classical or opera) and so needs adjustment to stay in the movie. Ditto for B roll audio under. With enough buses it's possible to do both dip/undip at the same time even with doing fader moves.

Philip Perkins

[Frank S.]

Faders 100% of the time...along with a little EQ and comp to fit it in there. Being able to lay back in a single pass makes it worth it, plus you have much more control.

[Fajita]

Originally Posted by nathand

I would have thought with your Discovery pedigree you would have stayed away from side-chains. (re: my comment above)

I take the music and output it to an aux, aux out goes to main mix music bussed via send to undipped track.

But it also depends on what I am working on. Promos is anything goes, even though we have to deliver undipped M&E.

[Mundox]

Ken, give Wave Rider a go. Website is on my signature.
Use it in Ducking mode. Might be what you're after.

[cananball]

Originally Posted by Mundox

Ken, give Wave Rider a go. Website is on my signature.
Use it in Ducking mode. Might be what you're after.

Having no trouble ducking my stems, merely curious if this is the preferred method others use. Fascinating product thought!

[RecRoom]

Originally Posted by Mundox

Ken, give Wave Rider a go. Website is on my signature.
Use it in Ducking mode. Might be what you're after.

Sometimes I'll use wave rider to duck my stems. It's never perfect, but gets me at a good starting point.

[Sonsey@mac.com]

Originally Posted by nathand

Dippers are definitely a powerful tool if you're looking for that sound.

One downside for show mixers working this way would be that it makes laying off dipped and un-dipped stems in a single pass impossible.

When needed, I run the stem aux to ANOTHER aux with the dipper on it. Record the stem aux for undipped, the dipper aux for dipped. Of course, my shows tend to be relatively small in terms of tracks, so DSP isn't necessarily an issue... Having said that, I tend only to use dippers when I'm really short on time on a mix. I prefer the faders myself, but when you have an hour to do a French version of a 45 minute show, they can save your bacon!

[Fajita]

Originally Posted by Sonsey@mac.com

When needed, I run the stem aux to ANOTHER aux with the dipper on it. Record the stem aux for undipped, the dipper aux for dipped. Of course, my shows tend to be relatively small in terms of tracks, so DSP isn't necessarily an issue... Having said that, I tend only to use dippers when I'm really short on time on a mix. I prefer the faders myself, but when you have an hour to do a French version of a 45 minute show, they can save your bacon!

+1
thumbsup

[bizzle]

Originally Posted by nathand

Dippers are definitely a powerful tool if you're looking for that sound.

One downside for show mixers working this way would be that it makes laying off dipped and un-dipped stems in a single pass impossible.

Duckers are a great time saver and can deliver an aggressive sounding mix without hitting the master buss compressor hard. And I think its been mentioned above that laying off undipped stems with everything else is totally possible. I simply duplicate the music buss aux and eliminate the ducking compressor, then send it wherever. I get a kick out of doing everything in one pass. Word to the wise however, be sure the delivery specs are clear about dipped or un-dipped stems. Many times they are vague and/or contradictory. Chears!

&e

[Dumb-Ask]

Sorry to be such a gearslut but which ducker plug ins do you guys like to use?

[Fajita]

Digi dynamics 3 and Waves C1gate

[nathand]

Originally Posted by bizzle

Duckers are a great time saver and can deliver an aggressive sounding mix without hitting the master buss compressor hard. And I think its been mentioned above that laying off undipped stems with everything else is totally possible. I simply duplicate the music buss aux and eliminate the ducking compressor, then send it wherever. I get a kick out of doing everything in one pass. Word to the wise however, be sure the delivery specs are clear about dipped or un-dipped stems. Many times they are vague and/or contradictory. Chears!

&e

Of course anything is possible. What I meant by a single pass is, when the client says approved you hit record. No additional Time/Work required. Granted your method probably only adds a couple few seconds.

[bizzle]

I use the Waves C1 for ducking. thumbsup

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by Dumb-Ask

Sorry to be such a gearslut but which ducker plug ins do you guys like to use?

Motherducker

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

[Fajita]

Originally Posted by Henchman

Motherducker

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

nice

[Dumb-Ask]

Thanks thumbsup