DIA Editors -- Q&A, smoothing between regions

[Jfriah]

Hello all DIA folks; poll today:

When seaming/smoothing between regions of DIA do you (using ProTools but other DAWs will no doubt be the same):
a) use 'fades' in and out on either side
b) draw volumes in/out/up/down between regions
c) any other method?

Just trying to help instruct some film students in the common processes so thought I'd take a vote.


(those that use volume automation, do you bring volume down to [infinity] and clean up between regions or just leave it up and 'messy' and only fix things if you hear pops in and out of regions?)

Thanks in advance for the responses.

Jeff

[Etch-A-Sketch]

fades

[ErikG]

Always fade, any dialog editor doing fade in/out with automation will feel my right foot kicking their bum! It gets much harder to
mix that way.
When editing volume automation make sure to monitor at an appropriate level otherwise it's of almost no use as it's quite likely it has to be redone from scratch by the mixer

[sailor]

Fades. Way faster & more precise. It would drive me nuts trying to do full-throw fader moves every time I wanted to smooth an in or out. It's annoying enough to get OMFs where the editor has done automated level fades for tops & tails rather than rendered....can't stand faders jumping all over like that.

And Pro Tools -- others too maybe -- has very powerful asymmetric fade options to smooth transitions between clips. Definitely will do stuff you could never accomplish with a fader move.

[RecRoom]

Yep. Fades all the way.

[Frank S.]

Fades FTW

[Mundox]

I know the question is for DIA editors only, but if it's a one man band scenario I find it better to deal with checkerboard regions with overlapping fades and smooth them with fader moves.

[Uncle Bob]

Another vote for fades.

As another "one-man-band" I cut the dialog out - each character gets a track - and extend the ends a little and do crossfades with whatever is between the lines of dialog. The air/roomtone gets a track and the production Foley, etc. gets one or more tracks.

[Lipflap]

Fades, if you're lucky. More than likely, you will also need some sort of room tone repair between regions, or phrases, or words.

[TVPostSound]

Read John Purcell's book (see previous poster)

After nearly 20 years in the business, I still learned a lot from reading it.

[Smallbudgetguru]

+ 1 for fades and John Purcell's book on dialogue editing. He explains this in depth and explains why and when to use different types of fades i.e. equal power vs. equal gain. Mr. Purcell your book helped me soooooo much its un-imaginable. Going to re-read the book again and again! Thank you for putting this stuff in writing for those who can't access experienced editors to learn from!

[smurfyou]

Fades. Automation would slow editing down and would likely be useless and/or annoying later on.

[Jfriah]

Thanks, folks, for all the votes. Fades are pretty unanimous!

Now, those that care to, could you PM me with screenshots of a section of DIA with both waveform (so the fades are shown) and volume automation modes displayed? They'd find that helpful as well.

And--ANOTHER QUESTION: for your fades, are you using 'auto fades'? Or are you creating fades individually as you go?

(hahaha, hey don't be hatin'---it's for the youngsters!)

(one of whom IS reading John's book and loving it.)

Jeff

[Jussi]

Fades here as well. S-Curve in & out for smooooooth transitions. Length of fade depends of course on the situation. Automation is for mixers

And yes to autofades if I know for sure the dubbing studio also uses them, I keep them around 4ms. (That there is no autofades in LE is actually the only good thing in that; Forces you to fade the clips and not be lazy, autofade-reliant monkey )

Can post pics tomorrow if that's of any use...(?)

Oh also, about roomtone if anyone's interested:

I keep the roomtone on the same tracks as dia and avoid adding any as long as possible. I find added roomtones on seperated tracks a bit artificial and useless as the needed fill can usually be found from the rushes.

I import the used take (say, take 5) and a few around it (say 2,3,4,6 or as many as needed) to edit tracks, use strip silence-extract, then on shuffle mode shift-tab-delete the spaces and then edit the hell out of the clips, spectral repair, reverse, duplicate etc etc... until I have a smooth long fill that doesn't loop!

I also try to remove all the sync sfx to separate tracks, even the tiniest thing, and find words or syllables from another takes to replace whatever was parasited on lines by the sync sfx. Then I go and try to find from another takes whatever I removed from the under the lines to make the sfx track complete.

Sorry if I am a bit confusing here...

[smurfyou]

No autofades, I fade each clip. Don't want the computer to get too cocky thinking it can edit for me.

[Jfriah]

Thanks, smurf---but you're a glutton for punishment, hahaha. That's a lotta fades. Wouldn't you rather auto-fade and correct what doesn't work than manually do them all?

Just askin'.

[charles maynes]

each region will have different requirements so auto fade is not advised.

Dialog Editing (and mixing) is an artform.

[Jfriah]

True---that's what I keep tellin' 'em!
The schoolin' is almost over and they're getting their hands and ears dirty with the real work now.

Best comment so far has been "wow, I had no idea that much work goes into dialogue editing! That's amazing! I'm blown away by how tough it is!"

Jeff

[Jussi]

Its not auto-fades against normal fades. Its auto-fades and normal fades.

[charles maynes]

If normal fades are being used, the auto fades are unneeded.

It is important to visually see a fade being present, even if there is zero modulation on it- it is the "finish work" of the job.

[Jfriah]

Thanks, folks. I was hoping to have seen a few screenshots by now but haven't received any. Wanted to do some 'show and tell' from projects other than my own.

(feel free to just PM if you wish)

And yeah, every fade is sacred, every fade is great. If a fade is wasted...


Jeff

[Etch-A-Sketch]

Originally Posted by Jfriah

Thanks, folks. I was hoping to have seen a few screenshots by now but haven't received any. Wanted to do some 'show and tell' from projects other than my own.

(feel free to just PM if you wish)

And yeah, every fade is sacred, every fade is great. If a fade is wasted...


Jeff

I sent you some through a PM. Let me know if you didn't get it.

[Sonsey@mac.com]

Originally Posted by Jfriah

And yeah, every fade is sacred, every fade is great. If a fade is wasted...


Jeff

Jeff gets quite irate?

[Jfriah]

Sonsey gets the prize!

And yeah, got the snaps Etch! Thanks.

Have a good weekend, folks.
Jeff

[Big Andy]

Since I couldn't PM you with this, here is session pic I took of a VERY early Dialogue Edit. The scene is on a very busy street with lots of traffic, so the fades are very long to smooth out heavy low end. Some of the fades are over 5 seconds long.

Also, you can see the volume automation is all just moused in. This was just to get a quick balance so I could make sure I was hearing what I thought I was hearing and move on.

[kister]

Originally Posted by Jfriah

And yeah, every fade is sacred, every fade is great. If a fade is wasted...


Jeff

Nothing like a bit of Python!
Can I just +1 on the room tone comment earlier.
Having a constant dialogue track is so much easier then a choppy dialogue track that you can hear ducking in and out!
Hard in soft out works for me.
k

[Jfriah]

That's exactly what I'm looking for, Andy. Thanks for that posting.

And yeah just dealing with some rough room tone editing on a student project right now.

Jeff