Old film restoration

[mini jack]

Hi guys,

I might have landed a job for restoring the soundtracks of old films, I do not have any experience on it but with the right tools and some time, I believe I can do a reasonable job.

I'm just curious about the tools an experienced one might recommed for the job.

I am not a pro but I mostly know my around.

So far, I managed to upgrade to a PT HD sysem and am planning on buying the Sonnox Elite TDM bundle along with Cedar DNS One. I have never used the latter one but a lot of research has pointed at it and am currently waiting for the demo dongle to arrive.

Anything else one might recommend, or thinks I should look into?

I would very much appretiate if you do

[Branko]

Originally Posted by mini jack

Hi guys,

...I do not have any experience on it...
...I am not a pro but I mostly know my around...
...Cedar DNS One. I have never used the latter one...

My God! How did you get the job? Did you tell your employers you told us?

[mini jack]

Originally Posted by Branko

My God! How did you get the job? Did you tell your employers you told us?

Come on Branko, how is that relevant?

I need a genuine answer.

[TVPostSound]

I do not have any experience on it but with the right tools and some time, I believe I can do a reasonable job.

Thats what I believed when I bought a hammer to build a house.

[mini jack]

Well, thanks anyway...

[dr.sound]

The biggest mistake you can make is to over process.
Nearly everyone who cleans up tracks gets wrapped up in the "look how much I have cleaned up the tracks".
Unfortunately in nearly all cases one is "throwing the baby out with the bathwater".
Do This:
Get it to where it sounds good and back the processing off 25%.
You will then be close to where you need to be.

[iluvcapra]

Originally Posted by mini jack

Well, thanks anyway...

I don't think you'll make as much use of the DNS as you would of the Cedar Audio Decrackler and Declicker, it depends on what medium you're restoring from -- I assume you'll be pulling from optical or mag mostly. If you're on a budget the iZotope declicker/decrackler/spectral mumbo-jumbo plugins also do a serviceable job.

Sonic Solutions used to be de rigeur for this sort of work, but I don't think they actually offer their workstation solution anymore. However you can get Sonic NoNoise as a plugin.

You might find Pro Tools to be an unweildy platform for restoring single audio files. Audio file editors of the BIAS Peak-variety actually have some better features for getting in and fixing audio sample-by-sample, which you may be doing a lot of.

[mini jack]

Originally Posted by dr.sound

The biggest mistake you can make is to over process.
Nearly everyone who cleans up tracks gets wrapped up in the "look how much I have cleaned up the tracks".
Unfortunately in nearly all cases one is "throwing the baby out with the bathwater".
Do This:
Get it to where it sounds good and back the processing off 25%.
You will then be close to where you need to be.

Thank you very much Dr.Sound,

Almost all the examples I heard, were not exactly %100 clean.

Is that just the way it is, or have they just done a bad job?

I believe the "masking effect" will take care of a certain amount, so I guess that is on a similar line to what you are saying?

[Branko]

Originally Posted by mini jack

I need a genuine answer.

Ok, here's one: make sure you play back the original under best possible conditions. Doing so will make the rest much easier.
It's a big difference between mag and optical original, so it's really impossible to answer your question without knowing that. Anyway, DNS isn't an option to begin with.

[mini jack]

Originally Posted by iluvcapra

I don't think you'll make as much use of the DNS as you would of the Cedar Audio Decrackler and Declicker, it depends on what medium you're restoring from -- I assume you'll be pulling from optical or mag mostly. If you're on a budget the iZotope declicker/decrackler/spectral mumbo-jumbo plugins also do a serviceable job.

Sonic Solutions used to be de rigeur for this sort of work, but I don't think they actually offer their workstation solution anymore. However you can get Sonic NoNoise as a plugin.

You might find Pro Tools to be an unweildy platform for restoring single audio files. Audio file editors of the BIAS Peak-variety actually have some better features for getting in and fixing audio sample-by-sample, which you may be doing a lot of.

iluvcapra,

I am atually thinking of getting the Sonnox Restore along with the Elite bundle, it comes with a deal. I was thinking about getting DNS One for my daily job anyways, which involves a lot of on location recording.

I know what you mean about PT, but luckily I do have access to SoundSoap as well, just in case.

So do you think these are OK for a start?

I am not restoring old Hollywood classics. We are just a small group who are planning to restore old, local classics to be aired on TV.

[philper]

I very much 2nd what Dr Sound told you (that with the available plugins it is very easy to "improve" bad sound into a worse ruin--you must CONSTANTLY compare what you've done to the original and think about it from the audience's point of view). I would add that since the film IS old (and presumably LOOKS old) that it is ok for it to SOUND old, somewhat. The taste factor involved has to do with matching what you are doing to the sound to what is happening with the picture, age and texture wise. Big pops, bangs, hums, buzzes and rhythmic sorts of noises are a big distraction and deserve your attention. Broadband noise, static, steady state kinds of noises are ok within reason, esp if you can get all the dialog to be intelligible. There are many tools available--you'll have to try them for yourself and decide which you like, which seem to work in what order and in which combo with what sorts of sounds. That's where experience comes in. AND....I have yet to hear any NR or resto work done on a regular DAW system with plugs that comes close to what a Cedar Cambridge "mainframe" can do... BTW: Cedar Inc is just an email away, and is available on an hourly basis to deal w/ your gnarliest issues. They've been a big help to me.

Philip Perkins

[iluvcapra]

Originally Posted by mini jack

I am not restoring old Hollywood classics. We are just a small group who are planning to restore old, local classics to be aired on TV.

On Dr. Sound's line, how are you getting this stuff into the digital domain in the first instance? If it's off some kind of analogue audio tape, make sure you have a convection oven (!) and alignment tapes that are appropriate to the era the tapes were made. Get excellent A/Ds that pull in at a very high sample rate, use a high-quality timebase, and make sure the deck is alogned before every tape.

If you're scanning off of optical, try scanning at half speed. I haven't tried it, just a random idea.

Always archive the raw captures somewhere safe and treat them like new masters. Never work on them directly, only work on copies (I guess that's sorta duh, but just in case!)

If you listen to some award-winning restoration jobs, you notice that they don't sound pristine and modern, the engineer just did a good job picking his battles and finding the best part of what's recorded, as opposed to making it sound awesome by ripping the guts out of what the original engineer left behind.

[quadraphonics]

Ok,

I have done this for most of the past 10 years. What Dr. Sound said is solid advice. But you are going to have to excuse a number of people here - this isn't usually a job that people just fall into without experience...

Software you are going to want to look at is:
Sonic Solutions NoNoise Plug in - This works wonders on Optical type crackle and the B-Type will be useful for pop/tick removal. I like the Broadband noise reduction on this to other plugs - but some would disagree with me.

iZotope RX - The Spectral Repair is going to be useful for removing contact noise (stylus), thumps, squeaks, etc.

Some good high resolution/fine Q EQs - as you will be removing a great deal of solid tones (50Hz, 60Hz, and ringing tones depending on the track).

Finally, some advice. Don't try to fix everything all at once. You need to approach jobs like this with patience. Start with a slight EQ to limit high frequency noise. Go to the section with the best frequency response (usually main or end title music) and A/B with the EQ on and off. The idea being to knock the hiss down without affecting the high frequency content of your track.
Watch the track down this way and take serious notes on the condition of the track; where there is crackle, hums, pops, ticks, etc. When you are done go back through your notes hitting all of the sections with your tools/editorial.
Next, if the track needs it - apply broad band noise reduction. Listen to the track through again, taking more notes. You will find that you have unmasked more issues than you heard the first time.

Repeat as much as needed.

As for tracks not sounding 'great'. There are a great number of things that affect the tonal quality of a track; age, source media, how it was stored. You are never going to be able to make a 1940's optical sound like Master and Commander - it doesn't have the frequency response or the signal to noise ratio. A lot of restorations are an attempt to make the track sound at least as good as it did the first day it was screened.

Randall

Originally Posted by mini jack

Hi guys,

I might have landed a job for restoring the soundtracks of old films, I do not have any experience on it but with the right tools and some time, I believe I can do a reasonable job.

I'm just curious about the tools an experienced one might recommed for the job.

I am not a pro but I mostly know my around.

So far, I managed to upgrade to a PT HD sysem and am planning on buying the Sonnox Elite TDM bundle along with Cedar DNS One. I have never used the latter one but a lot of research has pointed at it and am currently waiting for the demo dongle to arrive.

Anything else one might recommend, or thinks I should look into?

I would very much appretiate if you do

[Branko]

Originally Posted by iluvcapra

If you're scanning off of optical, try scanning at half speed. I haven't tried it, just a random idea.

What could be the benefit from this method? I'm not sure that's a good idea - scratches wood be twice as long on your scanned material.
There are some really good optical readers on the market today - Sondor's OMA Chace series or Laser Interface (that can read directly from negative). This being said, you won't try read from negative directly with analog reader, because you'll pick up all the uncompensated distortion (you know that the negative distortion is compensated for by correct positive density, don't you?)

[mini jack]

Well thank you very much guys/girls, specially quadraphonics, that's some great advice!

ps. I will not be doing and transferring from tape, that would be done elsewhere.

[Matti]

In the 70´ies we did some restoration from negatives as they where in too bad condition to run through printer. We used Dolby NR combined to a NTP
compressor and sometimes even mechanically masking sprocket hole noise from the ones that had shrunk. They where nitrate from early 30`ies and on.
An old Klangfilm reader was gentle enough for them.

Matti

[iluvcapra]

Originally Posted by Branko

What could be the benefit from this method? I'm not sure that's a good idea - scratches wood be twice as long on your scanned material.

Yeah but you'd have twice as many samples to work with for spectral repair, smaller clicks would be easier to detect... but now that I think about it, wouldn't the slit losses be a lot worse? Oh well...

Originally Posted by Branko

(you know that the negative distortion is compensated for by correct positive density, don't you?)

No, but I do know that old story about how Buzz Knudson on The Exorcist used a bloop pen ... and I regret that is the extent of my firm knowledge on the issue. Any books cover this anymore?

[Jfriah]

Originally Posted by dr.sound

The biggest mistake you can make is to over process.
Nearly everyone who cleans up tracks gets wrapped up in the "look how much I have cleaned up the tracks".
Unfortunately in nearly all cases one is "throwing the baby out with the bathwater".
Do This:
Get it to where it sounds good and back the processing off 25%.
You will then be close to where you need to be.

Hear-Hear.

And that's about all I'll say on the subject.
Good luck minijack.



Jeff

p.s. so glad I got a chance to meet Buzz Knudson! The Exorcist is one of my faves for sound.

[jraabe]

Lots of good stuff here. I would just add that you should definitely have a thorough talk with your client about their restoration philosophy... As Philper said, a certain amount of noise is expected, but taking away the "aging process" from storage, transfers, etc. is what's important.

The absolute worst thing you can do is accidentally show YOUR process - alien artifacting, gates pumping or the like = not good.