My first movie - Can't seem to find Hollywood anywhere near...

[bloodyh]

Hi all,

I'm looking for consolation. I am working on a low budget project as the only sound guy and had two weeks for editing, recording my own sound effects, premixing and mixing. Also it is my first important project, shot with a nice camera and decent audio (Rode NTG-3/Shure FP-33).

I did the best I could with the tracks I had (also as I can't open OMF's gathering production audio wasn't easily or properly done). Some of the tracks were rather clean and I think I honoured them. Some other have a quite high noise floor and didn't allow for smooth transition between them during the edit. I am now almost done premixing/mixing (whatever you call what one can do with a pair of reasonably good headphones... sweetening?).

My biggest concern is that because some noisy tracks weren't edited smoothly, I had to expand these way down to make space for my backgrounds so something can smooth out the scene. But I ended up with pumping tracks, pumping like you know an expander was here.

Have you ever had to deal with one of these awful projects? It is my first, I met very interesting people and pushed my limits. It is a great adventure. But compared to how great the team and the job is, I end up with tracks I am sometimes ashamed of, even though I think there was very few hope for them to shine.

I worked on headphones and checked my work with a pair of Genelec monitors but in a not so quiet room. The pumping was there :( It's submitted tomorrow to try and enter a festival. I already know the soundtrack doesn't get an Oscar... Can I get one for bravery and all nighters? :D

Great experience though, learning everyday... Cheers guys, please support me!

[Henchman]

Trust me, getting clean tracks just doesn't happen.
It's our job as mixers to clean them up.
So, what you're describing that you got to work with, is pretty much the norm.

[iluvcapra]

Originally Posted by bloodyh

I did the best I could with the tracks I had (also as I can't open OMF's gathering production audio wasn't easily or properly done). Some of the tracks were rather clean and I think I honoured them. Some other have a quite high noise floor and didn't allow for smooth transition between them during the edit. I am now almost done premixing/mixing (whatever you call what one can do with a pair of reasonably good headphones... sweetening?).

It's funny, have you checked the thread on dialogue editing books? Aside from the cited book Yewdall's Practical Art of Motion Picture Sound has a good chapter on dialogue editing.

Also at the risk of asking an obvious question, did you try looping any particularly bad lines? This is actually not as hard as it sounds.

Originally Posted by bloodyh

My biggest concern is that because some noisy tracks weren't edited smoothly, I had to expand these way down to make space for my backgrounds so something can smooth out the scene. But I ended up with pumping tracks, pumping like you know an expander was here.

A noise gate isn't really going to help you out very much on this kind of problem, it's not really designed to do what you're trying. You might lay your hands on iZotope for a start, or BIAS SoundSoap.

[bloodyh]

@Henchman: So the outcome is that I was pretty much unsuccessful :D Nice start!

@iluvcapra: I'd love to the only issue is I don't have money for this yet... I guess with some noise reduction and a bit of experimentation I could have made it less bad...

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by bloodyh

@Henchman: So the outcome is that I was pretty much unsuccessful :D Nice start!

You can't expect to start off without going through some growing pains.
And you never stop learning.
So, don't worry.
The only thing you have to worry about is the client being happy.

[bloodyh]

It's the director's first time on a short as well. We've already drawn lessons from that one. Anyway, I'm not worried about my future, it's just that I'm sorry that I can't make something better out of what we have. Anyway, back to work, my last all nighter since tomorrow is the submission

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by bloodyh

I'm sorry that I can't make something better out of what we have.

Don't worry. You'll get used to that feeling.

[Enos]

I already know the soundtrack doesn't get an Oscar... Can I get one for bravery and all nighters? :D

I think anyone in post production would deserve an Oscar for each project they did if this was the case!


Audio post production is never a smooth sail as you are dependent on so many things. The quality of the production sound is the first thing that will really push you back if it is not up to standard! Whenever I get onto a project, I try and make sure that money is well spent in getting a good production mixer and boom op on board. This makes our job SO much easier and we can focus on creating and being creative as opposed to fixing. If production sound is really bad, all you can do is roll your sleaves up and get ready for long sessions of ADR and Foley recording/editing. I am finishing a 80min film which is mainly dialogue throughout which had so poor production sound that I've had to replace ALL dialogue and Foley for the entire thing! It sounds good now but would have been SO easy a job if the production sound would have been anywhere near ok.


Be glad you learned something from the job and get ready for the next one! You will only smile when you look back. By the way, as you work with more experienced people (or as the people you work with get more experienced) your job will only get easier.

[ErikG]

My experience is that yes a good team for location recording definetly helps, but only if the direcor and DOP is good. If they are messy and keeps improvising both with lines, lighting and what is visible in the shot it's bloody hard even for the best of them to deliver good location sound.
Also without a good wardrobe dept the lavs will pretty much suck if they choose "bad" clothes and props.

Good sound is so much dependant on the rest of the team, unfortunately the team is often clueless about that fact...

[berniebeaudry]

Originally Posted by Enos

I think anyone in post production would deserve an Oscar for each project they did if this was the case!


Audio post production is never a smooth sail as you are dependent on so many things. The quality of the production sound is the first thing that will really push you back if it is not up to standard! Whenever I get onto a project, I try and make sure that money is well spent in getting a good production mixer and boom op on board. This makes our job SO much easier and we can focus on creating and being creative as opposed to fixing. If production sound is really bad, all you can do is roll your sleaves up and get ready for long sessions of ADR and Foley recording/editing. I am finishing a 80min film which is mainly dialogue throughout which had so poor production sound that I've had to replace ALL dialogue and Foley for the entire thing! It sounds good now but would have been SO easy a job if the production sound would have been anywhere near ok.


Be glad you learned something from the job and get ready for the next one! You will only smile when you look back. By the way, as you work with more experienced people (or as the people you work with get more experienced) your job will only get easier.

Just saw a screening for a local film festival competition similar to the 48 hour film fest. The difference being that these seven minute shorts were shot and completed in seven days. A lot more time to work than the 48 hour festival. I did the location sound for an entry that didn't qualify for awards because they couldn't cut it down to seven minutes. It showed at ten minutes and surprisingly seemed shorter than many of the other films.
Generally I was very disappointed with the sound on many of the entries. The films that were shot poorly (bad lighting, exposure etc.) for the most part also had poor sound. Distortion, off mic, wrong mic for interiors etc. There were some really good looking pieces with clever plots, but again the sound was disappointing (at least to me) in that the dialogue had distortion in spots even though it was not particularly dynamic, the mixes were very uneven and the music was often too loud and/or distorted.
Our entry was the first one up and sounded fine, so I'm assuming the issues I was hearing weren't in the playback system of the theater. This whole experience was an eye opener for me. I've done location sound for over thirty years and I've had the opportunity to do post audio work on a fair number of projects as well so I could easily tell which were location problems and which were post problems. Some where a combination of both and really showed that gain structure isn't something that was thought much about when recording the location sound or mixing the final product. This was all for fun but I also do a lot of tv news mixing and I see the same thing from the editors that I work with on a regular basis. I think not having sufficient monitoring tools probably has a lot to do with all of the uneven levels and distortion that I hear all too often.
Bernie

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by bloodyh

Hi all,

I'm looking for consolation. I am working on a low budget project as the only sound guy and had two weeks for editing, recording my own sound effects, premixing and mixing. Also it is my first important project, shot with a nice camera and decent audio (Rode NTG-3/Shure FP-33).

I did the best I could with the tracks I had (also as I can't open OMF's gathering production audio wasn't easily or properly done). Some of the tracks were rather clean and I think I honoured them. Some other have a quite high noise floor and didn't allow for smooth transition between them during the edit. I am now almost done premixing/mixing (whatever you call what one can do with a pair of reasonably good headphones... sweetening?).

My biggest concern is that because some noisy tracks weren't edited smoothly, I had to expand these way down to make space for my backgrounds so something can smooth out the scene. But I ended up with pumping tracks, pumping like you know an expander was here.

Have you ever had to deal with one of these awful projects? It is my first, I met very interesting people and pushed my limits. It is a great adventure. But compared to how great the team and the job is, I end up with tracks I am sometimes ashamed of, even though I think there was very few hope for them to shine.

I worked on headphones and checked my work with a pair of Genelec monitors but in a not so quiet room. The pumping was there :( It's submitted tomorrow to try and enter a festival. I already know the soundtrack doesn't get an Oscar... Can I get one for bravery and all nighters? :D

Great experience though, learning everyday... Cheers guys, please support me!

It takes time- dont be resentful about that.

One thing about bad production- as a rerecording mixer or sound editor, your first task is to make the track sound even.... If there is crud that lives in one scene or shot- you have to make it seem invisible. This DOESNT mean that you you have to eliminate it- but you have to eliminate the distraction it provides- if you gradually ramp into it, by having a similar layer of crud on the outgoing scene and following scene it will do a lot to help. Also your BG's can be used to hopefully draw attention away from the flaws in the production. Our hearing is transition based, and trust me we filter out a lot of distracting sound every minute we breathe. Over gating or expanding the production track will just draw more attention to the stink.

[bloodyh]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

It takes time- dont be resentful about that.

One thing about bad production- as a rerecording mixer or sound editor, your first task is to make the track sound even.... If there is crud that lives in one scene or shot- you have to make it seem invisible. This DOESNT mean that you you have to eliminate it- but you have to eliminate the distraction it provides- if you gradually ramp into it, by having a similar layer of crud on the outgoing scene and following scene it will do a lot to help. Also your BG's can be used to hopefully draw attention away from the flaws in the production. Our hearing is transition based, and trust me we filter out a lot of distracting sound every minute we breathe. Over gating or expanding the production track will just draw more attention to the stink.

Ha ha over expansion... I had the choice between quick fades between background heavy lines which was fairly distracting to me, or expanding this edit to then lay a smooth traffic background. I went for the second solution. That is the good news. There is one very bad scene where I had to replace original audio with alternate takes, some irreplaceable lines had to undergo aggressive expansion and I just couldn't find the right balance between expansion and gently drowning it out in a thick layer of traffic background :(

I know it's all about trade offs and sacrifices but I just like to share my experience and get feedback I'm not moaning. I just need to write a lot after two weeks of insane pressure.

Cheers for the comments all, keep sharing!

[Jfriah]

Bloody-- try using just a single onboard camera mic on a semi-pro Camera and being tied to audio shot from camera perspective.


Whee! That's what I had on my first-timer's production just recently.

Make THAT sound even; hey you got off alright for a first time. Definitely: making levels even was easily 50-60% of what I did; the rest was noise reduction once everything was up to listening level (huuuuuuuuuge variances in waveforms seen in the original OMF).

I actually had about 5 lines that were recorded with a lav/lapel mic and I had to toss those tracks out. Couldn't go there amidst all the chaos of the camera-mic-only recordings--audience would freak out.


Welcome to the party! And trust me: every day is a party.

Jeff

[Jfriah]

Oh: tips---if you're the only sound guy ('person'), try getting a good set of BG sounds in place that sound similar to location tracks and use those as you're putting together the middle stages of your dialogue (after doing the grunt work of pulling it in, putting it where it belongs, getting levels matched/sides matched, etc. etc.

Works wonders when you 'know what you need to survive' in terms of making the dialogue seem seamless.

Working on JUST dialogue is tough without knowing what the other folks are doing: if you have co-editors, always ask them to provide you with a rough stereo set (etc.) as soon as they can, for the entire show/reels.

Jeff

p.s. Trust me--I've cut and pasted more than my fair share of 'shoot' into scenes just to make things sound evenly balanced and seamless. Fave recently: one actor's side facing a busy street at rush hour; the other actor's side facing away from traffic and obviously shot after traffic had lessened. Fill fill fill fill fill!