5.1 sfx library

[cinetj]

Hi,

The studio where I work on will be start doing soon 5.1 mixes for tv. As so they're interested in buying a 5.1 sfx library. The recommendation is to have one with basic ambiences, traffic etc., and another with whooshes, impacts, stuff like that.

For now, I've only found the ones offered by Sound Ideas, Frank *******e's, and another 5.1 Civilization that seem like the general stuff they're looking for in the studio. For the whooshes, I have nothing. Does any one recommend any of those and have any suggestion for the later?

I assume also that this lack of 5.1 sounds in the major libraries is due the fact that maybe most people like to construct their 5.1 ambiances out of stereo material. In this case, what some of you do? Plug-ins like the waves 360 bundle, with 5.1 image enhancing, are worth buying?

Thanks for the help,
Rodrigo

[Big Andy]

Originally Posted by cinetj

I assume also that this lack of 5.1 sounds in the major libraries is due the fact that maybe most people like to construct their 5.1 ambiances out of stereo material. In this case, what some of you do? Plug-ins like the waves 360 bundle, with 5.1 image enhancing, are worth buying?

Your second assertion is correct. There are a handful of surround SFX out there, but a large number, if not all of those, are created from stereo material.

How is this done? Panning, Reverb, Delay and maybe a doppler plugin. You can go into great detail and start playing with the fx texture with eq, compression and maybe a chorus. But in reality all you need is a verb and the ability to pan. Altiverb has some really great 5.1 IR verbs. Check that out.

[cinetj]

Thanks, Andy

It will not be the first time I work with 5.1 and I've already did some of the stuff you've mentioned: pan, sometimes divergence, a little delay on the surround... but still would like to know if someone was using something more specific like the waves plug in. Thanks for the tip on the altiverb plug. Do you use it for the widening of exterior ambiances also?

Still, does anyone in the forum know one of these 5.1 libraries?

Show and tell guys, please

Cheers,
Rodrigo

[postprosound]

Also, don't forget good old school editing. Frankly, when it comes down to it, editing stereo pairs, or even 5 mono tracks is far more simple, and in many cases better that trying to 'make' something work. And don't forget to layer!!! careful layering really makes a BG with much more texture that you'd think. You have to be hyper critical when it comes to making sure that you don't repeat material, or that it might sound loopy, but it does sound really great. As was recently pointed out to me, the great Randy Thom is reported to actually prefer stereo tracks... But YMMV

That being said, pan a stereo track, ad some Revibe or Altiverb, and have fun.

[Rick Sanchez]

I usually do the ambiance in quad and leave it out of the center and LFE.
I'll also build them out of stereo pairs as most of the 5.1 libraries I've heard are not that great.

As far as whooshes. I like them mono and if I need them to pan, I'll do that manually or with a delay or reverb.

[Big Andy]

Agreed. Example:

Forest EXT:

Front: Leaves, lite wind, insects, birds, babbling brooke, trees creeking (*all stereo)

Rear: Birds, more leaves, little pink noise w/ gate keyed to the leaves from the front (*Mono)


Then the Helicopter starts low in a single point in the rears and opens up to full LCR in front. BLAMMO! CCR is blowing your ears out! Now you've got a scene from a Vietnam war flick.

[cinetj]

Thanks for the advice, guys. I`ve never heard any of those 5.1 libraries but considering what Rick said there aren't great things to expect of them. When layering different ambiences do you make sutil differences in panning the elements of the front and rear or everything is usually 100% front or 100% rear? Ex: the leaves in Andy's forest panned 100% front, the wind a little to the back. Do you use divergence also, in which cases?

[neilwilkes]

One that has some really useful stuff is Wizoo's old "Urban Atmospheres", now all for sale online at
Surround Sound Effects: Urban Atmospheres 5.1 surround sounds for urban locations
These are laid out for use in Nuendo, but all the files are there for customization.

[Rick Sanchez]

Originally Posted by cinetj

When layering different ambiences do you make sutil differences in panning the elements of the front and rear or everything is usually 100% front or 100% rear? Ex: the leaves in Andy's forest panned 100% front, the wind a little to the back. Do you use divergence also, in which cases?

It all depends on the scene. Most of my work it's all very subtle, but if you are doing sci-fi or a scene with lots of wide shots, you may have more freedom to make specific spacial judgments. A piece of advice I took to heart was don't use anything that will make someone turn away from the screen. If it's too noticeable, it's probably too much.

[Big Andy]

Originally Posted by Rick Sanchez

It all depends on the scene. Most of my work it's all very subtle, but if you are doing sci-fi or a scene with lots of wide shots, you may have more freedom to make specific spacial judgments. A piece of advice I took to heart was don't use anything that will make someone turn away from the screen. If it's too noticeable, it's probably too much.

+1thumbsup

[ggegan]

I find that point sourced mono tracks can create a very cool stereo environment. You generally want some stereo tracks as a bed of "spackle" to glue everything together, but using carefully matched monos to sweeten the sides and surrounds gives you discrete directional detail. For instance, a stereo wind in trees topped with mono tree limb creaks for each speaker works really well. Same thing with birds and crickets, etc. You just have to make sure the different monos are compatible sonically.

Sometimes splitting out a stereo track to monos and offsetting one side significantly from the other works well to make sure you have a good sonic balance.

[Rick Sanchez]

Originally Posted by ggegan

I find that point sourced mono tracks can create a very cool stereo environment. You generally want some stereo tracks as a bed of "spackle" to glue everything together, but using carefully matched monos to sweeten the sides and surrounds gives you discrete directional detail. For instance, a stereo wind in trees topped with mono tree limb creaks for each speaker works really well. Same thing with birds and crickets, etc. You just have to make sure the different monos are compatible sonically.

Sometimes splitting out a stereo track to monos and offsetting one side significantly from the other works well to make sure you have a good sonic balance.

Great points Gary

[subbasshead]

"I usually do the ambiance in quad and leave it out of the center"


I agree but I also think creating totally plausible ambiences for the Centre is also very
important and by plausible I mean elements that will support the production audio

I try to note the background behind dialogue on a scene by scene (& soemtimes
shot by shot) basis & match it to a degree, not to add more noise to the scene but
to make a consistent interesting ambience that helps fill out the dialogue and ADR

eg I recently sat in on a run through dialogue and noticed in one scene where
someone was talking from EXT in through a window, that the BG behind the
prod audio was quite a lot brighter than what I had edited, so I added a layer
to match this....

When we predub ambiences we tend to check against the dialogue predub for this
very reason... I may layer four or more mono elements to create an ambience for
the centre channel...

[ggegan]

Originally Posted by subbasshead

"I usually do the ambiance in quad and leave it out of the center"


I agree but I also think creating totally plausible ambiences for the Centre is also very
important and by plausible I mean elements that will support the production audio

I try to note the background behind dialogue on a scene by scene (& soemtimes
shot by shot) basis & match it to a degree, not to add more noise to the scene but
to make a consistent interesting ambience that helps fill out the dialogue and ADR

eg I recently sat in on a run through dialogue and noticed in one scene where
someone was talking from EXT in through a window, that the BG behind the
prod audio was quite a lot brighter than what I had edited, so I added a layer
to match this....

When we predub ambiences we tend to check against the dialogue predub for this
very reason... I may layer four or more mono elements to create an ambience for
the centre channel...

I totally agree. I'll often choose an appropriate "fill" like bg and if it is stereo, collapse it to somewhere between 35/35 and 50/50 to create a strong center with tapered shoulders to help it blend with the sides.

[Dode]

Just wanted to bring to your attention a brand new Online Surround Sound Library : Surround Library - Your Surround Sound Effects Source - Home page
Still young, still imperfect, but hopefully full of promises :-) .
Feel free to let your first impressions in the forum or blog.

[ggegan]

Originally Posted by Dode

Just wanted to bring to your attention a brand new Online Surround Sound Library : Surround Library - Your Surround Sound Effects Source - Home page
Still young, still imperfect, but hopefully full of promises :-) .
Feel free to let your first impressions in the forum or blog.

Were the original recordings made using MS or was it converted to MS later?

[Dode]

Originally Posted by ggegan

Were the original recordings made using MS or was it converted to MS later?

?
Actual recordings are made in ambisonic (b-format), from which we also extract 5.1 and stereo signals for ease of use. We'll soon provide double-M/S and sounds from a custom made 5.0/5.1 microphones array.

Bye.