And the nominees are...

[Jfriah]

Sound Editing
“Avatar” Christopher Boyes and Gwendolyn Yates Whittle
“The Hurt Locker” Paul N.J. Ottosson
“Inglourious Basterds” Wylie Stateman
“Star Trek” Mark Stoeckinger and Alan Rankin
“Up” Michael Silvers and Tom Myers


Sound Mixing
“Avatar” Christopher Boyes, Gary Summers, Andy Nelson and Tony Johnson
“The Hurt Locker” Paul N.J. Ottosson and Ray Beckett
“Inglourious Basterds” Michael Minkler, Tony Lamberti and Mark Ulano
“Star Trek” Anna Behlmer, Andy Nelson and Peter J. Devlin
“Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen” Greg P. Russell, Gary Summers and Geoffrey Patterson

Congratulations, folks.
Let the discussions begin.



Jeff

[Kuba_Pietrzak]

Personally, I am surprised that "Transformers" are not nominated for sound editing... Lots of interesting sound were done for that movie...

Kuba

[charles maynes]

I am surprised that District 9 wasnt in the group- I guess they had a lot of films this year with alien language.... It was actually a great year for sci-fi....

[Jfriah]

District 9 was good, but it was perhaps too 'ambitious' of a mix that freaked the members out. Very good year for sci-fi but to be fair, it is the 'most recognized' work of all genres. District 9, I felt, had better alien language than Avatar.

Jeff

[charles maynes]

I dont know if I would entirely agree- It is the most recognizable for sound design oppertunity- but Musicals are generally VERY popular with the Academy voters. War films are usually strong contenders as well- such as Saving Private Ryan, and of course the Iwo Jima pair. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out- because there were not any clunkers in the group in my opinion.

[Jfriah]

Oh, SORRY, Charles. You misunderstood / I mistyped my comment.

The CATEGORY is the 'most recognized'... by the Academy members.

Not "it is the most recognized" as in any particular film, were you thinking I meant D9?

I lost my $5 bet that Nine would WIN sound mixing this year based on the very 'trend' you refer to.

I dunno, my own personal 'clunker' of the group(s) if you will, if Transformers were to get a nod, I'd have put it in Editing instead of mix. And I'll still hold onto my concerns about Basterds forever but I have my theories on that situation.

Jeff

[Kuba_Pietrzak]

For sound give their votes academy members like:
- set designers
- dops
- supporting role actors
- ...

I think, you got the idea...

Kuba

BTW. A short animation, I did sound for was on the shortlist, but is not nominated unfortunately... Maybe next time...

[charles maynes]

One of the downsides with Sound Editing getting its own billet is that it has probably become a bit Politicized.... though Paul Ottosons' noms for Hurt Locker are certainly justified. He is certainly the underdog of the group, not having a big facility push behind him. That being said, I think Avatar is going to be the leviathan for all the crafts awards.

[cjguitar]

I really thought the sound design and the sound fx mix for Transformers 2 was really excellent, the other aspects of it I will not comment on.

And what Charles says about THe Hurt Locker is no doubt probably true. Having been involved with it, I'd like to see it win of course, but it will probably go to Avatar. The Hurt Locker may win some of the other creative awards such as best director, etc. It's an interesting year regardless, with a lot of great pictures nominated. It's just an honor to be attached to such a high profile picture.

[Kuba_Pietrzak]

I second to Chris...

The story is one thing... but the sound - this is the 1st time for years, when I could not recognize how this palette of sounds was created... and (IMHO) most of those sounds suited the picture really great...

I went to see the movie, because a friend of mine (a director) told me, that as a sound guy I must see it... so I did...

Kuba

[jozzafunk]

Some of the sounds that spaceship emanated in D9 sent shivers down my spine - there really was some amazing work done in that and it's probably time Monsieurs Whitehead and Burge were recognized at this level (again)

Avatar was fantastic of course, Up, an extraordinary film, gotta wonder how many nightmares that generated - I've gotta question if time and budget should be considered when these type of awards are dished out, or is it? and how much? does anyone know how much consideration is given to resources available? because talent is one thing and talent + time is another - of course you can also have too much time.

[charles maynes]

For the most part, I would disagree with the idea that budget has much to do with quality (edit- I need to clarify this- see below)- Many films were not in the list which had larger budgets this year- I mean we had Terminator 4, Harry Potter s and 2012 which had A list budgets. And frankly, it is unusual for a low budget indy like Hurt Locker or The Usual Suspects to make a huge splash- (But is obviously a great thing!). The budget though should not matter- the works quality in relationship to the story being told on screen SHOULD be the determining factor.


Budget and quality of work-

Money is all important here- but just because a film has a huge budget doesnt ensure a great soundtrack- the SOundtrack is ultimately determined by the people on the back side of the credenza- If they choose to make it a priority- it CAN be made great- it CAN allow the sound teams editorial work to make a dramatic impact- and make the film an aureal treat. If the film sucks however- Turd polishing is the result- and a high cost, and highly polished turd, is still a turd.

On the Reverse- a clever indy film can allow great latitude for sound- in the film The Usual Suspects, the score was so overwhelmingly compelling that it floated the film in my opinion. score often times can do that to a film. Sound editing cant though. Sound effects can be done well- but they ultimately require a compelling image to be most effective. This year- Hurt Locker WAS that film. But it is going up against both UP, and AVATAR which were both great, great pieces of work.

[Jfriah]

Unfortunately, in terms of intricate sound design and quality of DIA bigger budget usually leads to better quality so the lesser players are at a normal disadvantage there. But it is always great and amazing to hear and watch when the "little folks" get noticed in the world of the big projects. ( I still maintain Requiem for a Dream as one of my faves, and Usual Suspects, and this year, The Hurt Locker has made a good showing for itself).

Agreed, Chris, (and congrats!) it is always nice to get recognition for the hard work involved because as we know, a lot of time the work DOES (is supposed to? in certain terms...) go unnoticed. But peer recognition is great.

One of the biggest compliments I received when up for an award one year was on a show that was certainly in the same relative position (though not in the same caché as the Academy Awards)---up against bigger popular shows people had heard of (haha). Got a lot of "who? for what?" reactions, which was just great. And the best was hearing from a jury member that when the show came up for review, people hadn't heard of it and were already biased, then they played it and gave it a chance.

Always give shows a chance, is what I've learned. Just 'cause it doesn't have big money or big stars or big powers behind it, can still be a great project and a great experience. And might even come out SOUNDING like something.

Jeff

[Kuba_Pietrzak]

What's more, big overall budget does not mean big budget for sound department - sometimes it is, sometimes is not...

[Jfriah]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

just because a film has a huge budget doesnt ensure a great soundtrack- the SOundtrack is ultimately determined by the people on the back side of the credenza-

Yes. Agreed there. And of course, is always a topic of discussion with people (there have been some great debates in the not-distant past about certain projects) because it is subjective and, always the final decision rests with those couch-sitters.

Jeff

p.s. re: budget---yes, typically in the 1% to 10% of budget for post. And I don't think I've personally ever been on a 10%-er, hahahaha.

[charles maynes]

well since the medium feature is now budgeted around 30 to 40 Million dollars, a sound budget of 400K would be expected. that would in the old days be split 50 50 with the dubbing side. If we look at the schedule for that film in post being about 3 months which would allow about 20k a week for the sound editorial crew. That is not a giant sum of money....even though it seems like it.

[Jfriah]

Yep, and there are some budgets that are given and then decided "ok, how many people are we going to throw at this, we have this much, so that makes this long..."

And, then, haha, still going "are we going to be able to pull that off?!?"



Jeff

[jozzafunk]

You want what?!! for how much!!! ( wide eyed look )

[ErikG]

-Ya cant get that [sigh] for that amount of money you can get this, but not that, and if you recut all during editing then the fixing of previous material and assembling the new will have such a negative impact on workflow that you probably loose 20-30% creative work.

-Well I heard of this brand new tool called katy something, don't you have that? It does it all completely automatic. There's simply no extra work involved at all!

-Yes we have Virtual Katy, but the process is quite a bit more complex than that, and as far as fully automatic, you are welcome to come by and see how automatic it really is.

-I can hardly believe THAT. I was told by Super Star Editor that this was indeed how it worked. Besides I will have to keep on editing all through the sound job as we are not quite happy yet, but there will just be some smaller changes, nothing major, and it'll only take some three more weeks...

-That means that you wont have locked picture until just two weeks ahead of the mix. That leaves little time to ADR and fix everything, so again you will miss out on creative work, that time will have to be used to fix the edits and complete the sound editing for the new material. With a schedule like this you will have to spend more money or accept a lesser result.

-Oh no, I have no more money, but I really need a soundtrack that can compare with Titanic, Avatar and all the other major films. But wasn't this Katy supposed to fix all this?

and on and on and on it goes... idiots!
The damnation of our job since Virtual Katy entered the scene.
Love her and hate her...

[Jfriah]

Getting a bit OT now, but:

"Computers speed up workflow/making mixing and editing easier and quicker which results in people having more free time"

[charles maynes]

I know that last comment was in jest, but the reality is that non-linear film editing has allowed films to sit in an unfinished, and undecided state for far too long- It is too easy for (inexperienced) directors and editors to make very disruptive choices and drop them on the sound team too close to deadline moments- When films were cut physically, those options were impossible, and the edit required a lot more preplanning.

And unfortunately, films haven't really gotten better as a result-