Director > ME < Producer

[Big Andy]

As always, I really like to ask questions about how to deal with people. So here is my current query.

My Director has said since day one on this film, NO GUN SHOTS!. He wants to use other more creative sounds that aren't so "on the nose". As of a week ago the Director left LA for a month long shoot and the Producers immediately went out and had a VFX house BLATANTLY show a character killing himself, with a very big gun.

Now the Producers are saying I need to put in a gun blast for the kill, along with the standard bloody mess noises, and the Director is texting and emailing me like crazy saying, NO GUNS IN MY FILM!

I have since been talking nicely to the Producers offing suggestions as to how we can meet in the middle without using "actual" gun shots. They are not having it. And, I've been telling the Director I will honor his wishes to NOT put that type of sound in the film. As of 10 minutes ago, I have been trying to get the 2 parties to deal with this on their own (very subtly mind you) so I don't get put in the middle of this impending fight.

What would you do?

[jjb]

Who's paying you?

[aboutfaceaudio]

I would seriously ask the producer and the director to have a chat. When I'm dealing with two sets of clients, both of whom I report to, I try and play Switzerland as much as possible. If not, you could end up being both a punching bag and a scapegoat for both parties.

I would make sure the invoice is paid up as much as humanly possible (as nicely as you can put it if the terms work in your favor) and then ask for a new cue sheet. That's what the director is supposed to hammer out with the producer's direction.

I know these things can get a bit hairy but in the end it's the director's art against the producer's money and they've got to work it out. You're just work for hire. You don't get paid to manage the managers.

[Big Andy]

Exactly. And just so it's stated. The Director is pissed at the Producers, the Producers are laughing at the Director. And I have pulled myself completely out of the loop.

Both Director and Producer love me now. I love working the sides!


But Please continue this conversation. I like the hypothetical responses and old stories.

[Jfriah]

Originally Posted by jjb

Who's paying you?

Exactly.

[Jfriah]

p.s. that thread title is a t-shirt design waiting to happen...

[Henchman]

He who pay's, wins.

Pretty simple.

[Jfriah]

Yeah I must say, that's always a 'trying' situation, isn't it? Way I handle it, is if people specifically tell me to put stuff IN, I do. If it is a general note "no birds!" (happens a lot) I also do that as well. Sometimes I put the things in that there is conflict over and have it muted but waiting.

In the end, I usually go with what I think 'works' for the picture and keep in mind "who is going to be sitting in on the final?" Because, haha, sometimes the director isn't "available" anymore for final mix...meaning: been released or walked or not invited.

There's ALWAYS a producer there.

They pay the bills.

They need to discuss things with the director. You take your cues from the producer, I'd say 90% of the time.

Good luck.

Jeff

[Big Andy]

Good advice everyone. I love getting this info, because 90% of our jobs are how we interact with clients. The other 10% is the Mix.

[soundboy]

He who pays wins, but in the end, if you damage a relationship with a director who will go on to direct other pictures, you loose. Stay out of it!

[Jfriah]

Originally Posted by soundboy

He who pays wins, but in the end, if you damage a relationship with a director who will go on to direct other pictures, you loose. Stay out of it!

Yes. You never want to damage potential for return client. Director might go do other projects with other producers, producers might go do other projects and insist the mix gets done with you...

[bru95bg]

Couldn't help replying to this one I was in the exact same position with a scene a few months back and found a way out that worked -I did two versions Both parties were in the room at the same time for playback -so I made a big deal of it "and now we have party 1s version of this scene" -then rolling back and saying "now we have party 2s version of the scene" -actually got the point across in the playback that we were there for the show and not the politics -they were still fighting about it at the playback so I sent an email to everyone to let me know which version should be printmastered Wasted a bit of my time but at the end of the day it was their decision and everyone got to see the scene the way they thought it should be played.

Hope you can find a way through.

All the best

Bruno

[charles maynes]

you might schedule a time with the director to "solve" the gunshot sequence- great creatives generally need to "find" the solution on their own, and if the concept sucks balls as bad as you are describing, allow him to make a jackass of himself for YOUR pleasure... extra points if you can audio or video tape him doing so.....


remember that these moments are always painful, but are often worth their weight in gold as historic humor....


YouTube - I Don't Heart Huckabees

[Uncle Bob]

When caught between two parties like that I just do what Bruno suggested. You make suggestions and provide creative options but let them duke it out, comply with the final decision and privately grumble to the loser to maintain good faith with both sides.

[Big Andy]

Holy Crap! That video was epic! Well, things aren't nearly that bad. I was actually told by the director tonight that he wants to use me for life due to me consoling him while all this was happening. So.... lol.... Wow, that video was Epic.


And amen, that's EXACTLY what I've been doing all day. Great advice Bruno and Uncle Bob!

[Kuba_Pietrzak]

This discussion show a difference between american vs european ways of doing films; the producers <-> director relationships works here (in most cases) totally different; a described situation could happen in commercial world (when the client changes something the way director doesn't like), but (almost) never in a feature film world; cinematography here is much more director-centric...

Kuba

[Jfriah]

Ah the ol' huckabees gem...

My personal fave is when I was doing ADR once and had gone back into the room at lunch to grab another microphone. I could hear voices approaching and the tone was a little 'heated'. They came into the room, closed the door, and began screaming at each other about how they each hate the other, they'll never work again, their work sucks, they can't understand how they got the current job, the film is crap because of the other... obviously did not notice I was in there, because I was around the corner of a big baffle. So I just waited it out...wishing I was in record, hahaha.

About 5 minutes later, they exited, and went back to lunch and making phone calls.


Jeff

[Sonsey@mac.com]

Originally Posted by soundboy

He who pays wins, but in the end, if you damage a relationship with a director who will go on to direct other pictures, you loose. Stay out of it!

Exactly! On one such occasion, I had the director and producer duke it out, the producer (not surprisingly) won. On his next project the director told me to my face, that I should have backed him and NOT been a yes man, and that he would never work with me again.

Although... the producer has since gone on to do five or six other series with us. The director, I believe now works overseas...

[Jfriah]

That'd be a 'win' checkmark, Sonesy.