Rates for new audio post facility?

[lmsinn]

As a new owner of a micro-audio post facility, I'm often not sure what to quote prospective clients.There's a fine line between being competitive and devaluing our craft and profession. Thoughts?

A colleague once suggested a minimum rate of $100 per screen minute even on low/no budget films.

I also heard audio post should get 10% of the budget (for film).

[georgia]

Originally Posted by lmsinn

As a new owner of a micro-audio post facility, I'm often not sure what to quote prospective clients.There's a fine line between being competitive and devaluing our craft and profession. Thoughts?

A colleague once suggested a minimum rate of $100 per screen minute even on low/no budget films.

I also heard audio post should get 10% of the budget (for film).

umm.. yea, once you have a significant amount of projects behind you and you have a good rep, and you can deliver without drama ( or as I like to say keep the drama in the project not around it)..... Do you have references? can you show a client an outstanding reel? What kind of credits do you have?

and btw, Lo/No budget is normally the secret code for FREE and painful.

cheers
geo

[JoeMilner]

And 10% of the overall budget being dedicated to sound is WAY off.....these days 2-5% is the norm. And there's no movie, even Avatar, Titanic, Matrix, Terminator, Star Trek, etc that spent 10% on post sound.

Having said that, on a Lo/No budget film then 10% might actually be more what's required to do a decent job, but the filmmakers will never allocate that much.

Hope that helped, good luck!

best,
Joe

[philper]

For a micro facility (ie probably one person?) I'd suggest "situational" pricing. Producers can compare apples to apples with "real", larger facilities, but with a really small one it is all about the person who's shop it is, their rep and their relationship w/ the filmmakers. You can't sell yourself via an equipment list or probably a credit list either in competition with a bigger, established shop--the "facility" part of the equation is really just your personal toolbox--you are a much more important factor.

Philip Perkins

[Uncle Bob]

As my "specialty" is working on low/no/micro budget indie films, and my studio is of the same caliber (about $50k into the rooms and the same into equipment) I feel I can offer some advice to you here. Some questions first...

1. How much experience do you have?

2. How does your work compare with a "major motion picture"?

3. Do you have an isolated and treated room?

4. How good is your monitoring, both audio and video?

5. How client friendly is your studio?

-*-*-*-*

1. If you have little or no experience you're not going to attract much in the way of well-paying clients no matter how good you are. And, no insult, you're probably not very good yet; I wasn't when I started out. To gain experience you are going to have to do quite a few projects for little or no money.

2. Obviously, you're not going to sound that good, but that's what you have to shoot for because even though your clients have little or no money that's what they are expecting. To sound "Hollywood" you need years of experience and millions of dollars of equipment. How experienced are you at dialog editing, Foley, creating sound effects, music editing and mixing? Each one of these is an art-form unto itself. It took me at least a dozen projects to properly grasp dialog editing/clean-up, and recording and seamlessly blending in ADR; I'm pretty good but I'm still learning more all the time. I'm pretty good at sound FX creation/editing on minimal budgets, but again, I'm still learning. I've finally got a grasp of doing good Foley work, and I've been doing this for eight years now. Music editing is a snap, I come from an extensive music background, but I did have to alter my mind-set a bit. Mixing is probably the most difficult for me; translatability is probably the biggest issue as I'm mixing in a room and not a real mixing stage. Another issue is that by the time I get to the mix I've got "can't see the forest for the trees" syndrome; I've just gotten to close to everything to be completely objective.

3. Your room has to be isolated from outside sounds for both recording ADR, Foley and sound FX so the outside noises don't "pollute" the sounds and so they don't interfere with the reality of what you are hearing. It also means that you can work all hours of the day and night without complaint from your neighbors. The treatment means that your room is "flat", again so you are hearing things as they really are.

4. Quality audio monitors fold into #3 above, hearing everything accurately and to assure that your mixes translate well. For the picture you want a video monitor that your clients can see without leaning over your shoulder.

5. Client friendly means they can see and hear well without leaving the comfy couch and/or producers desk. There's someplace to plug in their laptops and recharge their phones. Is there a nice bathroom? Are you offering coffee, etc.? You have controllable air conditioning and heat? Is it accessible by mass transit and close to major highways?



All of these things will factor into how much to charge your clients, and that doesn't even get into your overhead - rent, utilities, insurance, expendables (DVDs, Foley props, coffee, etc.) and taxes.

I charge an hourly rate, but also offer block rates; the longer they keep me busy the lower the block rate. My "biggest seller" is a weekend 20 hour block that is essentially a "fix & mix" for indie shorts; clean up the production sound, spot the essential sound FX and Foley, spot/edit the music and mix. I also do carefully selected projects at very reduced rates that will garner me attention or offer an opportunity to do things I haven't done before, like the 20 minute short I recently worked on that had less than four minutes of dialog, a dog barking constantly for over eight continuous minutes [intrinsic to the plot] and some unusual Foley and sound FX work.

I hope that this has been helpful.

[Berolzheimer]

$100/screen minute for what? The whole sound edit, Foley & ADR & dub & deliverables? That would be $9k for a 90 minute feature. If so that would certainly fall into the "undervaluing our work" category, even for low/no budget pics. Try about 5 times that amount for low budget indies.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Setting rates is one the the hardest things a business has to do.

Have you checked around to see what others in your area are charging?

You need to ask yourself some questions like the ones below...

What can you provide the client that other studios in your area cannot?

What can they provide a potential client that you cannot

How professional is your setup? How professional are you?

Make believe you are a potential client what would you be looking for and then ask yourself as a business owner how you would provide what the client is looking for.

Then...

Add up all your business expenses. Estimate how many hours per week you will be booked (at first they be on the low side) then figure out how much per hour you will have to charge to break even. Then figure out how much per hour you will have to charge to make a living if this is your only income. When you have those two figures you will know pretty much how much to charge. Don't make the mistake many business make of charging super low rates for your services when you are starting out. It may get you clients but in the long term it is always easier to lower your rates than to raise them.

I would suggest sitting down with a banker or a bank sponsored financial adviser and asking them some questions. My bank has a couple of full time financial planners/advisers on staff and they are very good at answering my questions about my business.

Do a business plan and run it by the banker or adviser. These people see a lot of business plans and can usually spot one that is going to make it versus someone who has pie in the sky ideas and nothing to back them up. The person I went to was more than truthful about my business plan and made some very valuable suggestions.

As you get through your first six months try and tweak your business plan to reflect what is really going on.

A couple of words of advice...

Don't sell yourself or your business short.

Most potential clients are not looking for equipment lists. They are looking for someone that can get the job done in a reasonable amount of time for a reasonable amount of money.

Most clients want to have a nice workspace if they are attending sessions. A cluttered work environment may have negative effects on there feelings about you and your work.

Always be the consummate professional in everything you do. Treat everyone as you would like to be treated. Get all your projects done on time and on budget and make sure you don't take on something that is beyond your expertise unless you want to have some upset clients when you fail to get their project done on time.

If you are looking for business try and find some professional groups that have the kind of clients you want to work with and join the groups. Networking is and always will be the best way to get post clients. Word of mouth does so much more than fancy business cards or glossy advertising media that gets tossed as soon as it is opened.

Best of luck and let us know what is happening!!!

[gmarinov]

Originally Posted by lmsinn

As a new owner of a micro-audio post facility, I'm often not sure what to quote prospective clients.There's a fine line between being competitive and devaluing our craft and profession. Thoughts?

don't forget to break even

[ggegan]

Forget about setting a standard rate. Ask the client what their budget is and what they expect to get for it. Then figure out whether that is profitable for you. If it is borderline, start dickering for either more money or fewer services delivered.

[bassman]

Also, in the beginning, its all about getting the work started. Take what you can get without starving and work up from there. That's one side of the coin.

The other side of the coin is that clients expect things when they pay a certain rate:

Hi-dollar = great work

cheapo = crap work

....regardless of the outcome in many cases. Just because you want to give them a good deal, it can backfire into them thinking all the work you did is cheap simply because is cost less.

Sometimes they think you're a genius just because you charge more. You can also get more respect when you charge more as the client has staked some money in the opinion that you are good and they continue to want to believe that they made the right decision. So much psychology involved.

I find there are a decent percentage of AV clients that don't know good sound if it smacked them in the head. Its all about picture so they can't really evaluate your work. Buy a BIG HD TV!!!! Wow them and then go about doing the best job you can....

Starting out though, just get some work going and move on from there. You need a reel!

-bassman

[bizzle]

Originally Posted by bassman

Hi-dollar = great work

cheapo = crap work

As far as clients are concerned your model should be:

Hi-dollar = great work

cheapo = great work

∆ you only do great work. (Or at least as great as it can be.)

BTW, great posts on this thread.. You might also want to read up on entrepreneurship and small business legal stuff. If you are going into business you should know what legal issues can arise and how to protect yourself (and in some cases your client). The "What to charge?" question is only one of thousands, and it likely will need to be asked on each and every project based on still another thousand variables. Cheers!

&e

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by bizzle

∆ you only do great work.

Amen.

As for how much you charge on a per-project basis, going into the negotiation the client already has a number in mind. You need to find out (or deduce) what that number is, close the deal, and get it in writing. And don't let it drag on -- the further many projects get into production and post-production, the more they run over budget. And audio post, unfortunately, is the last thing in the timeline.

[bassman]

Originally Posted by bizzle

As far as clients are concerned your model should be:

Hi-dollar = great work

cheapo = great work

∆ you only do great work. (Or at least as great as it can be.)

BTW, great posts on this thread.. You might also want to read up on entrepreneurship and small business legal stuff. If you are going into business you should know what legal issues can arise and how to protect yourself (and in some cases your client). The "What to charge?" question is only one of thousands, and it likely will need to be asked on each and every project based on still another thousand variables. Cheers!

&e

My comment was only dealing with client expectations, not what we should deliver in terms of quality. Always the best work you can do. Just sometimes, even if the work is great, the client perceives it as crap since it was "cheapo" on the budget. Even though they negotiated the cheaper rate, they can sometimes feel like it was a bad deal since the perception is you don't cost that much to begin with. Get my drift?

Perception is a huge issue in this business.

-bassman

[ggegan]

Originally Posted by bizzle

As far as clients are concerned your model should be:

Hi-dollar = great work

cheapo = great work

∆ you only do great work. (Or at least as great as it can be.)

I agree.

I remember working with Dane Davis of Danetracks back in the early and mid 80s when both he and I were working in the same post production complex and doing a lot of extremely low budget movies. I was always amazed at the quality of work and dedication to excellence he applied to even the most minuscule budgeted projects that often had very little to redeem themselves in terms of the quality of film making. It didn't seem to matter to Dane. Every project he took on was treated like a piece of art. I couldn't figure out how he could stay in business working that way, but he did and eventually he got "The Matrix" and the rest is history. I don't even think that it was that big of a step up for him quality-wise because he always threw everything he had at every project he did, so when "The Matrix" came along, he was so ready and so up to the task that it was an extension of what he had been doing all along.

I think the lesson is, don't take on a project unless you are willing to do your best work.

[JoeMilner]

+1 for Dane. Unbelievable dedication and focus; I've never seen anything like it.

[lmsinn]

Really great posts, thank you all.

Replies to some of the posts:

1. How much experience do you have?

2. How does your work compare with a "major motion picture"?

3. Do you have an isolated and treated room?

4. How good is your monitoring, both audio and video?

5. How client friendly is your studio?

1. I do have years of experience under my belt, I've been recording music and film sound for ten years, but it's been on and off (three years straight I didn't touch a mic). I have a bachelor's and masters in music technology, and for the past 4 years have been doing dialogue, foley, sfx engineering, editing and mixing on lo/no budget indie shorts and a few features. My partner has a similar background, and our third person is our go to guy when we need extra help. He was editing audio for reality tv on major broadcast shows but was recently laid off.

2. It's tough to compare our work (there are three of us) to hollywood features, we've only done one film in surround. And we've never mixed on a proper dub stage. But I'm confident we'd all be more than competent if given the opportunity to work on any part of a HW feature (well, maybe not as the re-recording mixer YET).

3. Our tiny studio is isolated and treated. We built it ourselves with guidance from an well known acoustic consultant.

4. We have 5.1, use genelec 8030As and have a 52" flat panel hd tv. from Best Buy ; )

5. We've got the comfy, leather couch!!! (I definitely need an ottoman since our clients seem to disappear into the couch after about ten minutes). We have air conditioning and though the room can sometimes get a little stuffy we can control the temp. What we DON'T have is a lobby, or any room other than our studio.

$100/screen minute for what?

This was suggested to me by a seasoned editor and it meant everything from ADR editing to the final mix.

Forget about setting a standard rate. Ask the client what their budget is and what they expect to get for it. Then figure out whether that is profitable for you.

This is kind of what we've been doing so far. And we've been paying our bills but not much more.

Perception is a huge issue in this business.

I definitely agree that numerous factors besides technical quality of work determine how clients perceive you, that goes for almost all businesses whether retail, restaurant, or post production.

You need a reel!

We have a bunch of great clips from dream sequences in Indonesia to buildings building themselves in a stop motion animation short and comercials for Hendrick's gin- and you're right. we need to turn them into a stellar reel. i've been meaning to do this for two years now!

don't take on a project unless you are willing to do your best work.

That's a given.

[philper]

Originally Posted by lmsinn

Really great posts, thank you all.

Replies to some of the posts:

1. I do have years of experience under my belt, I've been recording music and film sound for ten years, but it's been on and off (three years straight I didn't touch a mic). I have a bachelor's and masters in music technology, and for the past 4 years have been doing dialogue, foley, sfx engineering, editing and mixing on lo/no budget indie shorts and a few features. My partner has a similar background, and our third person is our go to guy when we need extra help. He was editing audio for reality tv on major broadcast shows but was recently laid off.

2. It's tough to compare our work (there are three of us) to hollywood features, we've only done one film in surround. And we've never mixed on a proper dub stage. But I'm confident we'd all be more than competent if given the opportunity to work on any part of a HW feature (well, maybe not as the re-recording mixer YET).

3. Our tiny studio is isolated and treated. We built it ourselves with guidance from an well known acoustic consultant.

4. We have 5.1, use genelec 8030As and have a 52" flat panel hd tv. from Best Buy ; )

5. We've got the comfy, leather couch!!! (I definitely need an ottoman since our clients seem to disappear into the couch after about ten minutes). We have air conditioning and though the room can sometimes get a little stuffy we can control the temp. What we DON'T have is a lobby, or any room other than our studio.

This was suggested to me by a seasoned editor and it meant everything from ADR editing to the final mix.

This is kind of what we've been doing so far. And we've been paying our bills but not much more.

I definitely agree that numerous factors besides technical quality of work determine how clients perceive you, that goes for almost all businesses whether retail, restaurant, or post production.

We have a bunch of great clips from dream sequences in Indonesia to buildings building themselves in a stop motion animation short and comercials for Hendrick's gin- and you're right. we need to turn them into a stellar reel. i've been meaning to do this for two years now!

That's a given.

Here are some thoughts based my observation of sound businesses over the last 30 years--not trying to be mean but telling you what I've seen. You have too many guys for a one-room facility. One room shops like yours might support one guy, partly two maybe (if you are REAL busy) never 3. In order to do jobs big enough to support all 3 of you, you need more room--desperately. You need to be able to work on more than one job at once, or at least more than one aspect of a big job at once. After a lot of research I decided that the min. size for a multiperson audio business was 3 working rooms--each able to mix (but not necessarily Dolby-ed out), and each certainly able to edit etc.. You need to be able to help out the new filmmakers with a small cheap room that competes with the one-man-band houses, and not have it take up a lot of time in your bigger, more expensive room w/ all the bells and whistles that you are hoping to use w/ bigger clients. For now, your "other rooms" might could be off-site, but if you want to have a business for all 3 of you then you should be looking for bigger digs. In audio post EVERYTHING follows after the space you are in, talent or no--it determines in great part what kind of work you'll get to do. I learned this the hard way.

Philip Perkins

[Jfriah]

Originally Posted by lmsinn

As a new owner of a micro-audio post facility, I'm often not sure what to quote prospective clients.There's a fine line between being competitive and devaluing our craft and profession. Thoughts?

A colleague once suggested a minimum rate of $100 per screen minute even on low/no budget films.

I also heard audio post should get 10% of the budget (for film).

10%? I think you added a zero there...

(mmph)

[Jfriah]

Originally Posted by ggegan

Forget about setting a standard rate. Ask the client what their budget is and what they expect to get for it. Then figure out whether that is profitable for you. If it is borderline, start dickering for either more money or fewer services delivered.

Nice one, Gary. I second that, wholeheartedly. There ain't no 'standard rate'; it depends on how much freaking work you have to do and how much freaking money is available to spend on making their project sound like the best thing out there.

Originally Posted by bizzle

As far as clients are concerned your model should be:

Hi-dollar = great work

cheapo = great work

Nice one----and true. Your clients never expect crap work for little pay, right? They always expect the best even though they only have $500 to throw your way. Sometimes they don't understand that it takes TIME AND WORK to get things even 'up to par' / passable; hearing things in an edit suite on less-than-average speakers, in a room full of machines running vs. hearing things in a mix room or dub stage often freaks them out. Then again, a lot of them don't hear the difference...so all the power to ya!

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

the further many projects get into production and post-production, the more they run over budget. And audio post, unfortunately, is the last thing in the timeline.

And the last thing on the budget line. Thus the 1% - 5% realities. If you can get 10%? All the power to ya and congrats! I've worked on things where a project has to borrow from the next upcoming project in it's stable and where does that leave that next-coming project?

Originally Posted by philper

You need to be able to help out the new filmmakers with a small cheap room that competes with the one-man-band houses, and not have it take up a lot of time in your bigger, more expensive room w/ all the bells and whistles that you are hoping to use w/ bigger clients.

Nice one, Philip! And, yes perceptions are huge. I believe that if clients know they're throwing dollars into something where hundreds should be thrown into something, they often laugh inside; they know they're getting a good deal. If they spend money and they really have to THINK about spending that money, they expect to get a certain level of work. Provide it.

As for Mr. Davis; that's a great analogy Gary but I have to, sorry, take a different stance on not necessarily the story itself but maybe perhaps the way I read it? Sure "The Matrix" was "The Matrix" in the end, and he (and all involved) did a fantastic job. However, putting (trying to word things carefully here because I have a feeling a few will object) in 'your best work' on every project is fine and good (and expected by clients--and nobody would ever do a CRAP job on purpose. Don't get me wrong...I try to do the best job under the time and budget constraints) however--

You said that your association with Mr. Davis went back to the early / mid '80s and the matrix was 1999 release. So if one 'does one's best work' on each and ever project and tries to make it the best one can, will something eventually pay off the way 'The Matrix' did for him and (X) has done for many others?

I know what you mean, that we are expected to put in our best work on any project, or at the very least, try our damnedest to make it sound like 'something' in the end, make it sound somewhat clear and smooth for whatever dollar figure (or barter system) they are bringing to the table. And I support that; however for someone asking about rates, etc. I just think caution must be taken to not 'work like a freaking dog' on each and every project in the hopes something will eventually payoff like 'The Matrix' did recognition-wise. That's quite a gamble and we all need to make a living (as the original poster is aware). Try to do great work all the time, sure, because it keeps you moving forward and always learning. I just 'really dislike' seeing people work far beyond what a project is 'being responsible for.' But that's just me.

I'll very likely never even be nominated for a 'little gold man' based on my locale and my exposure to projects to work on--and I'm fine with that because it's about doing the work (and problem-solving/making things audible!!!) regardless of the scope, but at least I've had the interesting experience of touching that prize, hahaha, and that's probably as close as I'll get. But one never knowssss...And, in the end, as long as one is able to make his/her way and pay the bills and have somewhat of a life:

Do your best work you can, keep your clients happy (keep 'em comin' back and if in year ahead they attach you to a great project, congrats!!!), be aware of budgets and the restrictions they end up creating (based on time, 'manpower', access to certain tools, etc.) and in the end I have to say:

Charge what you have to charge in order to a) get the gig, b) fall within the client's budget, c) not completely undercut competition solely just to get the gig, d) support your overhead, yourself, your family, your responsibilities.

And always always always try to watch the show with clients (and original audio tracks / split dia and temp mus/fx) so you get an idea of what you're in for before signing on for anything.

And also always, try to stay friendly with clients even if (and ESPECIALLY if) you have to pass on something or 'break it to them' that they might not get certain things on this project. The ones that 'get it' will understand.

The ones that 'get it' will understand...

Good luck to everyone in 2010 in this crazy industry/economy still!


-Jeff

[lmsinn]

You have too many guys for a one-room facility.

Oops, I wasn't being clear. There is never more than one of us working in the studio- we work off site as well (at our homes) and utilize the studio day and night.

Thanks for the additional thoughts, Philip.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

We have two studios and three people working here and it gets very crowded very quickly.

I think you should always do class "A" work for a client. Some of my most fun projects have been for people who have a lot more talent than money...however doing those types of projects over and over again won't pay the bills. We get a lot of people asking us to do stuff for pennies. I use to try and help them out figuring in the back of my mind that they would be back with bigger projects and more money, but you know it never worked that way. They still came here asking for freebies and low ball estimates because they know I always do my best for every project no matter what the client's ability to pay. Now if someone wants me to do their project for very little it is done when we have the time and if we get interrupted by a higher paying project their project goes on the "as time permits" pile. One of our low ball clients wanted to get something done literally over night but he did not want to pay our going rates so I said no. It was amazing how quickly he came up with the money. Most individuals are basically cheap and many of them live in the WAL-MART world. I still try and help them out but I will only meet them half way.

FWIW and YMMV

[georgia]

One thing mentioned above is crucial in today's economy... if you want to run a "facility" you have to have more than 1 gig at a time in progress. You can't survive with over head and only 1 gig paying the bills in a serial fashion. You really need to get multiple revenue streams up and running.


When it comes to LO/NO pay gigs, I have found that the less you charge the more painful the work, due to a couple of things. by charging a very small rate or free...

1. your services are considered by the client to have little or no value.
2. your client "probably" isn't a pro and really doesn't know what can and cannot be done, vastly increasing the chances of an unhappy client in the long run.
3. no matter how hard you work, or how good your work is, since the rest of the project is probably at best, problematic and a worst, out of control, the client will want excessive changes.
4. at some point due to the first 3 points you and your team are going to get pissed, because all your hard work will be constantly second guessed, you and your team will be harassed for continual changes throughout the whole process, even though you thought the project was done weeks ago, and, or course, there will be no additional remuneration. This just gets old.

Mind you, I, like everyone here has done and will do LO/No pay, but I am VERY careful about who I do freebes for.... freebies have a habit of just never ending... and when that rent bill comes due... well lets say it's hard to convince the landlord that the project you are working on is so cool and, an epic piece of film, that he should let you have the rent for free so you can keep doing the work for nothing...

cheers
geo

[RecRoom]

Originally Posted by bizzle

You might also want to read up on entrepreneurship and small business legal stuff. If you are going into business you should know what legal issues can arise and how to protect yourself (and in some cases your client)

Any suggestions on books for starting a small business? I'm freelance now and am considering becoming incorporated. Any good resources out there for people in our line of work?

[Jfriah]

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

Most individuals are basically cheap and many of them live in the WAL-MART world.

I had to re-quote that one. Amen. And add: and they even come shopping at post houses and think they haven't left the WalMart SuperCentre.

And good points, Thomas and Georgia!

I always sound like a hard-butt for saying don't work for free, don't undercharge, charge what you have to to cover your overhead/pay the bills/keep the gig if you WANT the gig, but it is the honest truth: you don't a) get by, or b) help the professionals in this same industry (especially within a certain locale where clients can shop around / always find stuff done CHEAPER---face it: someone is always willing to sign on for cheaper.) by charging low rates.

Charging lower and lower leaves no up-tick in the future because clients remember what they paid LAST TIME if and when they return. And there's always the 'so and so say they can do it for such and such'. Fine.

-Jeff

[Thomas W. Bethe]

I just had a client contact me about some video and audio transfer work. I gave her an estimate and she was "appalled" at the estimate. I asked her what she thought the transfer should cost and she said "a couple of bucks". If you want something done in a professional manner and on time you have to pay the going rate. I can see someone not wanting to spend big bucks but believe me our rates are so reasonable that even Scrooge McDuck could afford us. I think today a lot of people are a) living in a fantasy world and b) think that because the US of A is in a recession that everyone is going to bend over like the retail merchants and give them a 50 to 75% discount on their rates. What a lot of people don't understand is we are selling services and there is only so much of us to go around. You cannot work 25 hours a day for slave wages and expect anyone to turn out professional level work.

Oh well...

[georgia]

transfers in NYC range from $75/hr all the way up to $450/hr...
Dolby charges $250/hr


cheers
geo

[Uncle Bob]

Many potential "clients" don't even know the logistics of the service they want. I once had a guy call me to do the entire audio post for his indie feature in one day.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Many potential "clients" don't even know the logistics of the service they want. I once had a guy call me to do the entire audio post for his indie feature in one day.

So did you do it?<GRIN>

[Uncle Bob]

I gave him a ridiculous quote for his ridiculous request so he decided to look for other quotes.

[HelixGuy]

To quote Bill Murry in "Ghostbusters";
"No Job too big...no fee too big..."

I worked for large sound-houses for about 7 years, (Glen Glenn, Larson Sound Center,) and I've also been independent for 16 years or so, with one strong client and a few others that became more trouble than they were worth.

What I have found, is that the fees are always negotiable AND flexible, and they are always going DOWN!!! (While the difficulty of the work keeps going UP!) Anybody remember when dialogue tracks began coming in on two tracks instead of one? (Workload UP, income STATIC.)

As far as providing extra effort and high quality...doing anything less is to risk your rep in the industry...period.

An old SFX editor friend of mine once yielded to massive pressure from company insiders, as well as the producer/director of a particular project. He cut corners, ignored things that were typically to be covered, and he got the thing done in about half the time. However, the screaming and complaining on dub-day nearly lost the editor his place in the company. (Most of the screaming came from the producer/director who told him "not to worry about the quality.")

That fiasco stuck to that poor editor like glue, even though he was "just following orders." In my early experience as an editor, not only did I "kill myself" daily to do things right, but I also began training for dialogue work at a time when I was still wobbling to keep learning my SFX chops.
Within the year, I got an opportunity to move to a new sound-house in town, and take on SFX AND Dialogue for a little show called "Cheers." (I was on the show for six seasons.)

If I had ever dropped my effort, or quality, or had been too lazy to take on Dialogue editing, the opportunity to do a show like Cheers would not have been offered. They needed quality, dedication and someone who was good at both SFX and Dialogue.

Was that worth two cents?