Surround audio

[ahjteam]

I'm not sure if this is in the correct subforum, if not, please move it to the correct subforum...

I have a 5.1 mix I did a while ago, I have it as six 24bit 48khz wav files (L, R, C, Ls, Rs and Lfe), and I want to make a single file out of it to send it to the band. What format should I use (AC-3?) and what software (preferrably free) do I need to convert it into something that can be listened on a software media player or on a physical dvd-player? Stereo mixdown is not an option.

[Big Andy]

Well. You should use AC3. You need to use the correct Channel order though.

L C R Ls Rs Lfe

And an AC3 will playback in Stereo if a decoder is unavailable.

As far as a Free Encoder goes.... I don't know of any. That type of thing is expensive. I've spent thousands on my encoders, but there may be something out there.

[TVPostSound]

Do you know anyone with Final Cut Pro??
It is very capable of encoding an AC3. The you can burn a "consumer" 5.1 DVD with it.

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by Big Andy

Well. You should use AC3. You need to use the correct Channel order though.

L C R Ls Rs Lfe

And an AC3 will playback in Stereo if a decoder is unavailable.

As far as a Free Encoder goes.... I don't know of any. That type of thing is expensive. I've spent thousands on my encoders, but there may be something out there.

L R C LFE Ls Rs is not an incorrect channel order. It's the SMPTE/ITU order. While PT exports multichannel in film order (the one you cited), multichannel files do not necessarily adhere to film order. In fact, it seems that every other week there's a new post about how to convert from PT's favored export channels to SMPTE/ITU. Assuming that an encoder wants to see a multichannel file in film format is risky. For example, the Dolby DP 569 has three pairs of digital inputs: L/R, C/LFE, and Ls/Rs. This makes absolute sense for facilities that use digital routers, because one would never pull up L/C as an AES/EBU pair, while one would often bring up L/R and Ls/Rs. C and LFE are often dealt with as mono files at the source. PT's film format definitely does not rule the broadcast or DVD world.

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by TVPostSound

Do you know anyone with Final Cut Pro??
It is very capable of encoding an AC3. The you can burn a "consumer" 5.1 DVD with it.

I believe you mean DVD Studio Pro, now part of Final Cut Studio.

[Big Andy]

Originally Posted by kk@jamsync.com

L R C LFE Ls Rs is not an incorrect channel order. It's the SMPTE/ITU order. While PT exports multichannel in film order (the one you cited), multichannel files do not necessarily adhere to film order.

That's not what he posted though. He had L R C Ls Rs LFE. Combining the two! But you are right. In Compressor you just put the file where it tells you to put it... then **Poof** a DVD.

I don't even know why people get paid to do this job. I mean Computers do all the tough stuff.

Haha

[TVPostSound]

I believe you mean DVD Studio Pro, now part of Final Cut Studio.

Yes, correct.








.

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by Big Andy

That's not what he posted though. He had L R C Ls Rs LFE. Combining the two! But you are right. In Compressor you just put the file where it tells you to put it... then **Poof** a DVD.

I don't even know why people get paid to do this job. I mean Computers do all the tough stuff.

Haha

Right...with a touch of DTS format thrown in for good measure. My dyslexia is kicking in, I guess.

As for "Poof a DVD"...right, but a DVD w/o a menu. DVD with motion menus, stories, and multiple audio files is slightly more than "Poof".

[Big Andy]

LoL, I meant this of course as a throw to the:

Craigslist suck threads

[neilwilkes]

Originally Posted by ahjteam

I'm not sure if this is in the correct subforum, if not, please move it to the correct subforum...

I have a 5.1 mix I did a while ago, I have it as six 24bit 48khz wav files (L, R, C, Ls, Rs and Lfe), and I want to make a single file out of it to send it to the band. What format should I use (AC-3?) and what software (preferrably free) do I need to convert it into something that can be listened on a software media player or on a physical dvd-player? Stereo mixdown is not an option.

I would certainly not use AC3.
It sounds terrible for music mixes, smearing the hell out of all the transients & generally sounding as if someone put a sack over the speakers.
Yuk.
If your band is surround savvy, they will doubtless be able to play DTS-CD, and you can buy (sorry, but encoders cost money) the SurCode DTS-CD encoder for $99.
Downside is you will need to resample to 24-44.1, but that is all & you will be able to write the output to a straight CD-R and get discrete surround in a better quality by quite a long way compared to AC3.

VLC Media Player will play this.
Most DVD players will output either the decoded 6 channels or else a bitstream to a decoder in an amplifier.

You can use FLAC of course, but that will be limited to computer playback on a player with FLAC support - again, VLC will do this

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by Big Andy

LoL, I meant this of course as a throw to the:

Craigslist suck threads

I've been too busy to look at Craigslist for the last month and I think that's the reason I've felt so calm and happy lately.

[neilwilkes]

Originally Posted by kk@jamsync.com

I've been too busy to look at Craigslist for the last month and I think that's the reason I've felt so calm and happy lately.

[Big Andy]

Originally Posted by kk@jamsync.com

I've been too busy to look at Craigslist for the last month and I think that's the reason I've felt so calm and happy lately.

Amen. I'm right there with ya!

[santibanks]

Originally Posted by neilwilkes

I would certainly not use AC3.
It sounds terrible for music mixes, smearing the hell out of all the transients & generally sounding as if someone put a sack over the speakers.
Yuk.
If your band is surround savvy, they will doubtless be able to play DTS-CD, and you can buy (sorry, but encoders cost money) the SurCode DTS-CD encoder for $99.
Downside is you will need to resample to 24-44.1, but that is all & you will be able to write the output to a straight CD-R and get discrete surround in a better quality by quite a long way compared to AC3.

VLC Media Player will play this.
Most DVD players will output either the decoded 6 channels or else a bitstream to a decoder in an amplifier.

You can use FLAC of course, but that will be limited to computer playback on a player with FLAC support - again, VLC will do this

You can also get Diskwelder bronze and make a dvd-a for that money (though I believe there are also free tools that do the same. There is a dvd-a project on sourceforge and I believe that Foobar and WinDVD support playback of dvd-a on windows. VLC has some experimental playback support too in some of their nightlies).

[neilwilkes]

Originally Posted by rainy-taxi

You can also get Diskwelder bronze and make a dvd-a for that money (though I believe there are also free tools that do the same. There is a dvd-a project on sourceforge and I believe that Foobar and WinDVD support playback of dvd-a on windows. VLC has some experimental playback support too in some of their nightlies).

DVDA is certainly the superior form to use where you can be sure of player support.
VLC does indeed have AOB support in build 1.10 & later (as you say, the daily builds) and earlier builds of WinDVD (6 Platinum is okay but flaky, 7 is hobbled in later versions but okay in earlier, PowerDVD is supposed to work okay-ish) but support in soft players is limited right now.
With VLC getting into the game, things are looking up though as this is truly cross platform too.

DW Bronze is limited to 5.1 at 24/48 - no MLP lossless support, and 24/96 in 5.1 exceeds the available bitrate of the format