The best music production library for a lone composer?

[littlejim84]

Hello. I'm starting to make more music which I feel would be suitable for commercials, TV and films and have been trying to locate good sites that offer me as a lone composer to sell my music for licensing.

I have found this large list of music production library sites here:
Get production music

But which of these are recommended? I'm UK based (if that matters). Looking for a well respected and decent place to do this...

Any recommendations for these kind of sites?
Thank you.

[RTR]

Taxi.com

[littlejim84]

Have you (or anyone here) used this service?

Any one actually got any work out of it?

[Etch-A-Sketch]

Production Music Association

The PMA is an association formed by production library companies to promote the interests of production library companies and their composers. It's a good place for you to start. It's kind of like joining the Society of Composers and Lyricists, or NARAS, etc, but for production music composers. It's an organization that can get you rubbing elbows with the decision-makers of production companies that specialize in licensing music.

[londontown]

Sell it? Nope. Won't happen.

None of the big boys will, unless it's recorded with live orchestra, or something else exceptionally cool about it. They'll happily add it to their library and give you the writer's share income coming back from it though.

None of them give out up front money otherwise, it's all backend based. They aren't hard to find though...KPM, APM, Extreme...but you need to think long and hard. Most library tracks make nothing...zilch. There's tonnes out there. The best ones are the biggest because they sign exclusive deals ie for xyz cable show the editors may use any track from the KPM library...or something like that.

but bear in mind...your stuff has to be ready to go and it has to sound GOOD already. I.E....as good as sample demos get if it's all samples.

Don't expect a paycheck the first year that can't be eaten in one sitting at an average restaurant. You might get lucky and get a track picked up for CNN as their new logo theme or something like that, but it's one in a million, and the guys who make a lot of money out of library music write TONNES of it...churning it out. They number very few and they guard their territory closely.

Originally Posted by littlejim84

Hello. I'm starting to make more music which I feel would be suitable for commercials, TV and films and have been trying to locate good sites that offer me as a lone composer to sell my music for licensing.

I have found this large list of music production library sites here:
Get production music

But which of these are recommended? I'm UK based (if that matters). Looking for a well respected and decent place to do this...

Any recommendations for these kind of sites?
Thank you.

[londontown]

Also if anybody asks you to pay them to submit your music to a library, it's usually (not always, but usually) bull.

Most of these companies will happily accept tracks if they're actually well produced, well written, decent bits of music that they could see making some money commercially...

[Etch-A-Sketch]

Originally Posted by londontown

None of them give out up front money otherwise, it's all backend based. They aren't hard to find though...KPM, APM, Extreme..

That is completely not true. APM, Extreme, etc all PAY money up front per track to purchase the publishing. Those two libraries specifically are much harder to get music into because they are so big. For example, Extreme has Snoop Dogg producing most of their hiphop, Rodney Jerkins producing most of their R&B, and Hans Zimmer producing most of their orchestral film music. Why would they take hiphop or orchestral music from an unknown when they have Snoop and Hans writing for them?

There are two main types of deals being used in the library industry right now. The first is upfront fee per track, company owns 100% publishing and licensing forever, composer keeps 100% songwriting and only sees PRO royalties.

Second type of deal that is common, No money up front, company retitles the music and does a co-publishing deal, usually for a specified amount of time. It's a 50/50 split on the publishing and licensing, composer keeps 100% songwriting. Composer sees 50% of all licenses, plus 75% (100% songwriters + 50% publishers) of the total PRO money, and regains 100% of the publishing after the contract expires.

You were correct about making money though... most people don't make money in library. The reason being, as you said, you need to make A LOT of music to start seeing decent money. Library isn't for the "Artist" who spends two years trying to create 10 songs. Library is for composers and songwriters. People who look at writing music as their day job and can write and produce a whole song from start to finish in 4 hours, and are usually cranking out 2, high quality, high production value, songs per day.

You don't necessarily NEED live orchestra... but you need to be able to program your sample libraries to sound like a live orchestra (a skill which can take some people decades to master). Same thing with drums, guitars, etc. If it sounds fake or cheezy, it will never get placed. Library music IS NOT competing against other libraries... A library track competes against whatever the director and editor used as a temp track. That might be a James Newton Howard or Hans Zimmer score, it might be a U2 song, or a Sinatra hit. If the track you produce doesn't have the same production value as THOSE songs, it will get tossed out.

Right now (and this changes every year) most people won't start seeing decent money from library until you have about 300 ~ 500 songs in circulation. That's roughly about 30 CDs of music. I know people who can write 20 or 30 CDs a year in a variety of styles without any sounding cheezy or "demo"-ish. These are the people that are now making good money because they have literally thousands of songs in circulation. If a person is more of an "artist" and has spent the last 3 years writing 15 or 20 songs and is now thinking, "I'm going to put this in a music library and then I'll be able to just sit back and let the cash roll in..." they are sadly mistaken.

[londontown]

oh that's definitely true.
They have made payments upfront, and will probably make payments in the future, but as you say, there's got to to be something in it worth buying that doesn't water down their current library, only adds or enhances, and the bar is pretty damn high.

But if you walk in the door with something good, and make enough noise, they'd probably take notice. It's a bit of a gamble doing it though, I've got a few tracks out there like that, and if they make a lot of publishing money or sync a lot then ultimately you lost out in the long run I guess. It's all a bit of a crapshoot, but what bit of the music industry isn't, I guess...

Library music does compete with other libraries, but only on the library vs library front as an entire entity. Extreme have done a very very thorough job on the schmoozing and "coolest kids in town" run.

There's few other companies making significant payments out up front though. It's not a great game to be in to get rich unless you're very good, very fast, and very, very, very, very, very patient...

[Etch-A-Sketch]

Originally Posted by londontown

I've got a few tracks out there like that, and if they make a lot of publishing money or sync a lot then ultimately you lost out in the long run I guess. It's all a bit of a crapshoot, but what bit of the music industry isn't, I guess...

Library music does compete with other libraries, but only on the library vs library front as an entire entity. Extreme have done a very very thorough job on the schmoozing and "coolest kids in town" run.

I don't understand how you ultimately lost out if your tracks generate a lot of sync and publishing money. It's better to make half of something than all of nothing. If your music is getting licensed a lot, it has AS MUCH to do with the person pushing it as it does the quality of your music. Great music goes unlicensed every day because it never makes it into the hands of people looking for it.

Libraries compete with other libraries for blanket licensing... it's the "sign up with me, not them...we're better!!!" But in the end, even if a company has a blanket license, edtors/supervisors are ultimately going to be putting songs from that library up against the music they are using as temp. If they can't find something that sounds as good as the temp... they aren't going to renew the blanket license when the contract expires and most likely they'll go out and try to find another library to sign on with even before the first deal expires.

I'll tell you this. In my experience (I've worked on a little over 180 CDs for music libraries), companies structure their deals based on the market segment they get the most business from. They want to structure their deals so composer will make money as they make money, otherwise they'll never be able to attract good composers. There is no correct deal or incorrect deal. It really needs to be looked at on a case by case basis and based in relation to what the majority of uses are for that company.

Originally Posted by londontown

There's few other companies making significant payments out up front though. It's not a great game to be in to get rich unless you're very good, very fast, and very, very, very, very, very patient...

Huh? Please, please, please show me any business where the worse you are at what you do, the slower you are at what you do, and the more impatient you are at what you do, the more money you make?

Whether you are a carpenter, an investment banker, a real estate agent, a software developer, or a composer... in order to be successful and make a lot of money you need to be really good at what you do, be very quick without making mistakes and have a lot of patience....

Hmmm... I think I feel an infomercial coming on!!! LOL "The Secrets of Success... buy my book and I'll show you all the secrets these wealthy billionaires used to amass their wealth and don't want you to know!!! Follow my program and you too will be a millionaire!!! For just 3 payments of $30, you can unlock your earning potential and start making your fortune in whatever industry you are interested in!!!"

And when you get the book. It's one page (more of a leaflet than a book actually). It says,

"Secrets to success:
1. Be good at what you do.
2. Be very fast and efficient.
3. Have patience.
4. Create your own infomercial."

[drBill]

Good advice by Derek. I'd say you need 1000 songs to start getting a decent income stream going. 3000 to start living off your royalties and having the money to produce new product without financial burden. And ONE word of advice:

DIVERSIFY

Split up your catalog between many companies. You never know which one is going to do well. It is not dependant on name or management, but often more on serendipitous luck.

[Etch-A-Sketch]

Originally Posted by drBill

And ONE word of advice:

DIVERSIFY

Split up your catalog between many companies. You never know which one is going to do well. It is not dependant on name or management, but often more on serendipitous luck.

+1000000000000!!!!!!!!!

[kirk95]

Originally Posted by drBill

Good advice by Derek. I'd say you need 1000 songs to start getting a decent income stream going. 3000 to start living off your royalties and having the money to produce new product without financial burden. And ONE word of advice:

DIVERSIFY

Split up your catalog between many companies. You never know which one is going to do well. It is not dependant on name or management, but often more on serendipitous luck.

Who would be the top 10 or 20 Production Libraries you would DIVERSIFY too if you were starting out today?

I agree DIVERSIFY sounds like GOOD advice!!

[MarcFilmer]

This video has alot of useful info on this topic. In particular, Brad Hatfield (of Berklee College of Music), mentions the importance of production music libraries having 'some kind of bar' you need to get over to get in, so a composers production music isn't left sitting on'a digital shelf' (lost in a sea of quite-good-but-not-great tracks). It's 30mins long, but worth watching all the way through!

Brad Hatfield - Music Supervision - Berkleemusic Open House - YouTube