Clarification on usage of prod. audio - and dialog - in major motion pictures!!

[DynaForte]

Recently I heard some interesting things in the center channel at the movie theater and it aroused some questions I have for those of you who've done work for theater on major films.

First of all, in regards to production dialogue - when is production dialogue actually used, and how is its usage dictated, and who makes that choice?

There's obvious reasons to do ADR, but outside of dealing with noise in production audio, is it sometimes more of a "creative" choice? Or even if an actors voice was hoarse that day or something.... in otherwords, reasons other than outdoor noises or strange buzzes etc...

Also, how often is on-set dialogue actually used?

How often would a movie (filmed, not animation) actually have NO on-set dialogue at all?

Then, I am also wondering about issues of other sounds in on-set dialogue such as body movement and footsteps.

If you choose to use production dialog for a scene, it wouldn't seem natural to use gates to remove body movement and footsteps (and other sounds) happening in between dialogue, because there would be unnatural room noise changes as well as possibly differences between foley and actual movement etc.. - not too mention movement during speech would still be heard.

So, when the decision is made to use on-set dialogue, this means this natural foley is going to be in the center channel.

THANK YOU!

[Jfriah]

Wow, that's quite the concern there, Forte. Big topic, many many answers.

Including "it all depends."

Where to even start with that...

Your clients make the decision as to what is used. Mixer and sound supervisor do their best to fight for the best sounding stuff but are sometimes overruled (and sometimes agree) that location sound is better for performance or whatever other factors. DIA editors cut stuff in, ADR editors cut stuff in, mixer gets tracks and uses them unless something isn't working for him/her and goes from there for further finessing/investigating.

BUDGET is always a factor. TIME is always a factor. And, sorry, ears of the mixer and clients (and playback environment) are always a factor. I, too, have heard many things in theatrical releases that could have been so many factors and yet there they are coming from the speakers. Could have slipped through, could have been bad playback calibration for the speakers / the curve.

Sure there are movies that have no location sound; sure there are movies that have no ADR.

YOU may have pushed for ADR but a) the production might have no money in the budget for that, b) the actors might not be available (or alive), c) the director or producer overrules your silly request, d) the ADR you get completely sucks because the actor 'throws it' or is just bad at it or has a cold, e) you see what I'm getting at.

As for your centre-channel concerns--I'm confused. DIA primarily DOES come out the C-channel, as does foley and production fx. Typically you want to put things attributed to the characters out the same speakers their mouths send sounds from. Otherwise...it is an art film. Or a bad mix by people who don't know what they're doing. OR because they're being told to do something by the people paying the bills.

How do we handle issues of matching? We just do... without getting into specifics. It was a pretty general concern/question.

Does any of that help? Wide open / large topic and I'm sure others will chime in here. Maybe.

Really don't know if that helped at all...

It all depends...

Jeff

[DynaForte]

Jeff - Thanks, this is good stuff. So most of your comments are as expected - budget, time, client etc... - beyond that I can only assume what engineers would choose, or just be happy with my own preferences.

You're saying that it's standard to put foley AND footsteps (?) in center channel?

Would there sometimes be post foley and post footsteps added on TOP of the existing production body movement sounds simply because they cannot be isolated from the dialogue that was done on set, and no ADR is going to be done?

Thanks!

[dr.sound]

Originally Posted by DynaForte

Recently I heard some interesting things in the center channel at the movie theater and it aroused some questions I have for those of you who've done work for theater on major films.

First of all, in regards to production dialogue - when is production dialogue actually used, and how is its usage dictated, and who makes that choice?


Also, how often is on-set dialogue actually used?

If I was working on this project, I would have pushed for ADR. It was something only audio engineers would notice, but it was there enough so I could hear it in conversations. They clearly chose to allow this level of noise. It might have been on set sound in general, it almost reminded me of digital NR artifacts, but it wasn't.


So that's kind of the area in which I'm looking for some insight...

THANK YOU!

You are looking for insight but you have already made statements above "I would have pushed for ADR".
You would have "pushed"? No, they would have pushed you out of the Dialog chair and replaced you!

Dialog Mixes don't push, we suggest. Here is something you must quickly learn,you must EARN RESPECT, NOT DEMAND IT. When clients respect you and your opinions then they will listen to what you suggest. When your name appears on the opening credits of a movie next to the Director and Producer, well then you can "Push...".

[dr.sound]

Originally Posted by DynaForte

Jeff - Thanks, this is good stuff. So most of your comments are as expected - budget, time, client etc... - beyond that I can only assume what engineers would choose, or just be happy with my own preferences.

A couple things here.

I've done some pretty big projects - nothing for theater, but have done movies. Every spec I've received so far has dictated having NOTHING but dialogue in the center channel. EVER! And since I have almost always done 100% ADR (which is my preference, but usually chosen by client) there's no production foley/steps in it.

But you're saying that it's standard to put foley AND footsteps (?) in center channel?

I of course record foley/steps in mono but it's always been in L/R mostly because, since my earlier work had the above specs I assumed this was normal.

Would there sometimes be post foley and post footsteps added on TOP of the existing production body movement sounds simply because they cannot be isolated from the dialogue that was done on set, and no ADR is going to be done?

Let's say that someone is walking and talking. You keep the dialogue and the footsteps are there too, but not loud enough or in need of there own reverb? You'd have to add a second set of steps - is this sometimes done?

Thanks!

Thanks!

You have done Movies and the specs say "Nothing But Dialog in the Center? WTF?
Never , ever have I heard that OTHER than Discovery Channel. That is crap.
If you have Foley in Left and Right but not center with the Dialog how is anything going to sound natural. You are augmenting the production Sound or even replacing it . You want it to match not sound like it is coming from elsewhere.
Dynaforte, who have you worked with that taught you these approaches to mixing?
What was their reasoning? Did you ask them about ADR and Foley?

[ggegan]

I find that directors generally don't want to use ADR unless they absolutely have to. Performance trumps technical perfection, and very few actors are able to match on an ADR stage what they can achieve on set in terms of authenticity. Good ADR can match perfectly in terms of tone, voice quality and micing technique, but still not be preferable to production dialogue with technical issues because the nuances of performance and emotion aren't there. If a performance is good enough, the audience will filter out the technical problems.

I second Marti about the center channel spec you mention. That sounds bizarre and arbitrary.

[DynaForte]

Originally Posted by ggegan

I find that directors generally don't want to use ADR unless they absolutely have to. Performance trumps technical perfection, and very few actors are able to match on an ADR stage what they can achieve on set in terms of authenticity. Good ADR can match perfectly in terms of tone, voice quality and micing technique, but still not be preferable to production dialogue with technical issues because the nuances of performance and emotion aren't there. If a performance is good enough, the audience will filter out the technical problems.

I second Marti about the center channel spec you mention. That sounds bizarre and arbitrary.

Well it certainly always seemed bizarre to me! But they had specifically asked for this, and so I guess that it became my formula or benchmark but I am glad to hear from experienced people like you, so I can improve.

Lemme ask you this Gary - in some cases, small cases, footsteps pan, and dialog doesn't come from on-screen. So these would be creative liberties I guess?

How about if a room tone is used in scenes without production sound to match scenes WITH it, this room tone would be in the center channel, right?

So dialogue, foley, footsteps, room tone would usually be in the center channel?

One more....I got these all bottled up in my head - dialogue reverb, another creative liberty as to making it a 5.1 reverb versus having it in the center?

Thanks Greg have a good night.

[dr.sound]

DynaForte,
His name is Gary. He is very good. He knows his stuff and his name is still Gary.

Check your private messages.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by DynaForte

I've done some pretty big projects - nothing for theater, but have done movies. Every spec I've received so far has dictated having NOTHING but dialogue in the center channel. EVER! And since I have almost always done 100% ADR (which is my preference, but usually chosen by client) there's no production foley/steps in it.

I'm with Dr Sound on this one.
I've NEVER seen this spec for a feature or scripted TV show.

[Dallas Taylor]

Originally Posted by DynaForte

Yeah... based on your attitude and behavior on this forum you're not somebody who I want to converse with.

I don't want to interfere with this conversation.. but I would like to point out that Marti & Gary are two of the most experienced & most respected mixers in Film. Both of these guys were mixing major projects when most of us were in diapers. I would do more listening than speaking.. but that's just me

[Dallas Taylor]

Originally Posted by DynaForte

I've done some pretty big projects - nothing for theater, but have done movies. Every spec I've received so far has dictated having NOTHING but dialogue in the center channel. EVER! And since I have almost always done 100% ADR (which is my preference, but usually chosen by client) there's no production foley/steps in it.

One more thing..

It would be much easier to address your questions if we knew what you've worked on & what your background is. Do you have an IMDB link or a website?

[Uncle Bob]

There was a recent article about the sound of "Inglourious Basterds" in Post magazine. Tarantino absolutely insisted that all of the dialog be production sound. They would re-light, re-block or even re-shoot to get the production sound right.

The LOTR trilogy is reportedly about 90% ADR.




You may want to pick up "The Foley Grail" by Vanessa Ament. According to her you Foley just about everything. BTW, reading the book, watching the DVD and then re-reading the book expanded my Foley skills immensely.

[charles maynes]

Having worked with Marti, I have to say, first- he is a consummate professional, and two- his comments are based on real world (for Hollywood) experience. His comments in this thread are as close to "industry standard" as I have ever seen.

As to the center channel being solely reserved for production dialog, In my experience, I have never heard of such a specification, and I have done films fro every major studio in Hollywood. Foley VERY often lives in the center channel, and FX and BG's end up there far more often than not.

If that is not consistent with your experience, I would say it is highly unusual.


perhaps you might be kind enough to post your real name, as most of the pros here find it to be a reasonable expectation.

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

There was a recent article about the sound of "Inglourious Basterds" in Post magazine. Tarantino absolutely insisted that all of the dialog be production sound. They would re-light, re-block or even re-shoot to get the production sound right.

The LOTR trilogy is reportedly about 90% ADR.




You may want to pick up "The Foley Grail" by Vanessa Ament. According to her you Foley just about everything. BTW, reading the book, watching the DVD and then re-reading the book expanded my Foley skills immensely.

for the purposes of M&E coverage all movements are typically covered in Foley- whether there is clear production or not-

[DynaForte]

Originally Posted by Dallas Taylor

One more thing..

It would be much easier to address your questions if we knew what you've worked on & what your background is. Do you have an IMDB link or a website?

Sure if it would help.

Well I worked in just music for 12 or so years. But now basically just sound for picture.

I have done many of tv commercials and voiceovers.....as many of you might have in the beginning.

I've fortunately worked on movies for a video game companies, and some indie films.

I apparently have a deficiency in both the center channel and production audio because my only work in surround was CGI....so no production audio.

Oh, I've been doing post work for just two years almost full time. But mostly voice only.

Thanks Dallas have a good night.

[apple-q]

Originally Posted by DynaForte

I've done some pretty big projects - nothing for theater, but have done movies. Every spec I've received so far has dictated having NOTHING but dialogue in the center channel. EVER! And since I have almost always done 100% ADR (which is my preference, but usually chosen by client) there's no production foley/steps in it.

But you're saying that it's standard to put foley AND footsteps (?) in center channel?

Footsteps are in the center 99.99% of the time. Why? Because they have to compliment the ADR why would anyone put fts into the L&R when the dialog (be it ADR or production) is in the center. Do you have your shoes walking 9feet next to you on both sides? No you hear peoples noises (feet, movements etc.) where their voice is. Would you want to hear someone´s feet on the left hand side when he´s in the middle of the background of a wide shot?

Putting nothing into the center but ADR is complete nonsense and will lead to a "hole" in the center channel. You always fill the center with roomtone, foley and even "dirt" from the original production track to get is a close as possible to the production sound that might follow a line of ADR.

This is all pretty basic stuff about the art of dialog editing.

In 60 theatrical featue films I´ve done so far NEVER was the center solely used for ADR.

Please tell us a reason WHY anyone would want dialog in C and foleys in L&R only (apart from creating a freaky special sound effect)?!

[apple-q]

Originally Posted by DynaForte

Sure if it would help.

Well I worked in just music for 12 or so years. But now basically just sound for picture.

I have done many of tv commercials and voiceovers.....as many of you might have in the beginning.

I've fortunately worked on movies for a video game companies, and some indie films.

I apparently have a deficiency in both the center channel and production audio because my only work in surround was CGI....so no production audio.

Oh, I've been doing post work for just two years almost full time. But mostly voice only.

Thanks Dallas have a good night.

dude, are you mistaking the center channel for the phantom middle in stereo audio?
From what you have done it sounds like you are talking about the middle panorama in a STEREO mix? Which means that when you put something into the "center" it´s actually routed to both left and right channels equally loud.

What you say is lightyears away from common practise in film audio (at least in 5.1).

[DynaForte]

I'm talking about center channel. Center channel.

Why does it seem as though everyone here thinks I'm saying they're wrong and I'm the all-knowing person here?

I never said anything should or should not or is or is not put into a particular channel. All I said was that, in the projects I did, I was asked to do those things.

And now Jeff has brought up that this isn't the norm at all.

Don't ask me WHY you'd want things that way, I didn't choose them I just followed the guidelines.

So.... have my actual questions been lost.

[DynaForte]

Originally Posted by apple-q

Footsteps are in the center 99.99% of the time. Why? Because they have to compliment the ADR why would anyone put fts into the L&R when the dialog (be it ADR or production) is in the center. Do you have your shoes walking 9feet next to you on both sides? No you hear peoples noises (feet, movements etc.) where their voice is. Would you want to hear someone´s feet on the left hand side when he´s in the middle of the background of a wide shot?

Ok! I never said I didn't want this, I said someone asked me to do otherwise.

I agree with this logic.

Originally Posted by apple-q

Putting nothing into the center but ADR is complete nonsense and will lead to a "hole" in the center channel. You always fill the center with roomtone, foley and even "dirt" from the original production track to get is a close as possible to the production sound that might follow a line of ADR.

So, added room tone, foley, footsteps, ADR, production audio (dialog) and "dirt" meaning matching the production sound fluidly are all in the center channel!

Originally Posted by apple-q

This is all pretty basic stuff about the art of dialog editing.

Ok. Now I have got some basics, thank you for the info.

One more question apple-q - In your experience on 60 films, how is the reverb on dialogue used? Center only? 5.1 reverb? etc..

Thanks!

[DynaForte]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

There was a recent article about the sound of "Inglourious Basterds" in Post magazine. Tarantino absolutely insisted that all of the dialog be production sound. They would re-light, re-block or even re-shoot to get the production sound right.

The LOTR trilogy is reportedly about 90% ADR.

You may want to pick up "The Foley Grail" by Vanessa Ament. According to her you Foley just about everything. BTW, reading the book, watching the DVD and then re-reading the book expanded my Foley skills immensely.

Thank you Bob.

It's on my book list, need some time to read. Shoot maybe I'll get it tomorrow!

On the ADR issue, sounds like it's largely a directors choice. That's cool. I guess taking the time to care about sound on set is a good thing for sure.

[apple-q]

Originally Posted by DynaForte

Don't ask me WHY you'd want things that way, I didn't choose them I just followed the guidelines.

I asked these questions because if you answer them for yourself you might find the answer on your own.

Does it not seem weird to have someone speaking in the center and his foley on the far left side or right side of the screen? Because this is how it´s going to sound for anyone in the theater who´s not in the sweet spot. (which applies for 90% of the people in a cinema).

[apple-q]

Originally Posted by DynaForte

One more question apple-q - In your experience on 60 films, how is the reverb on dialogue used? Center only? 5.1 reverb? etc..

Thanks!

It depends on what kind of scene you´re working on. In small quiet place anything more then a mono reverb in the center on ADR might sound fake because when you have a mono production sound with natural reverb it will only be in the center as well. So you won´t be able to match ADR and production by spilling a lot of high-end pristine 5.0 reverb on the ADR. Sometimes a mono reverb will sound more natural and less distracting.

Sometimes it´s better to have a 5.0 or stereo reverb to tell the storry about the room a bit more.

It´s up to you. There are no real rules. Dialog mixers try to make the dialog (ADR and production) sound consistent so it doesn´t distract people from the story.

Regarding your other initial questions:

There a many reasons for ADR: Distorted recordings, too much noise, mumbling, too roomey, director wants to change lines because the cut has changed a lot, wrong expression, change of expression, character needs to be re-voiced because of wrong accent or poor performance etc. etc. etc.
That a film is 100% ADR is extremely rare IMO. Actually I haven´t done this ONCE in my career apart from animation of course.
As said before 99% of all directors will prefer the production sound (at least the ones I´ve worked with) and find doing ADR always a difficult step unless they hate the proformance anyway.

[DDKNY]

Originally Posted by DynaForte

how is the reverb on dialogue used? Center only? 5.1 reverb? etc..

Reverb on dialogue is mainly used to convey distance between to characters, or character and camera, reflection, and or very special properties of the surrounding space, just like it would in a music mix. Main dialogue contains very little to no reverb (as it already has it own tails from production - sometimes in undesirable amounts).

Good reasons to use reverb is to indicate a character that's (O.C.) off-camera, or is walking away from another into (O.C.) a distant hall saying something "indistinguishable"..

A gentlemen shouting loudly on an empty street at a damsel in the window... but on a closer shot on him (no rev), she's shouting at him so she might have rev. (also depends on taste... some do, some don't)

People buried in a cave in a wide shot, in CU's the dialog comes back to center.

Minor rev in tiled rooms, tiled halls, subway platforms, but almost never for the characters in a CU/MCU.

Mostly all rev goes on to SFX/PFX/Foley/Atmosphere to show size of place (like echo's of a door opening in a church), DIAL is left sort-of alone unless at the end of the church hall is a pastor shouting back in a very wide shot to the person who entered.

Watch any of your favorite TV shows or Films, the only times ample REV or any panning to DIAL tracks is applied is in those specific situations, and usu. in a different way, some do, some don't at all.

[apple-q]

Originally Posted by DDKNY

Watch any of your favorite TV shows or Films, the only times ample REV or any panning to DIAL tracks is applied is in those specific situations, and usu. in a different way, some do, some don't at all.

Second that. Transfer your favorite films into your DAW so you can solo the channels and analyze for yourself.

Get an internship and attend a feature film mix and learn from experienced sound editors. This craft is not (only) about plugins and surround reverb. Sometimes the greatest things are done in an extremely simple way.

A good film-mix starts with good sound-editing (and good production sound of course) a good mixer is nothing without a good tracklay and vice versa.

Many newcomers are extremely intrigued by the mixing stage, loud bangs and explosions, subwoofer etc. etc.. All them buttons and lamps. They think all the magic is done there which is not the case. (Not only)

Very often it´s far more difficult to get a dialogue scene sound right than to create spaceship fly-bys and laser gun zaps. Unfortunately the latter is mostly what gets all the attention. Good dialogue in the final product is taken for granted by the audience which is why it´s so important to get it right.

A tracklay that does not sound consistent on it´s own and is badly organized will become a pain on stage.

All of this is part of a craft that can not be learned from "printed paper" only. But now I´m drifting off topic. And I guess you know that.

[ggegan]

Originally Posted by DynaForte

Well it certainly always seemed bizarre to me! But they had specifically asked for this, and so I guess that it became my formula or benchmark but I am glad to hear from experienced people like you, so I can improve.

Lemme ask you this Gary - in some cases, small cases, footsteps pan, and dialog doesn't come from on-screen. So these would be creative liberties I guess?

How about if a room tone is used in scenes without production sound to match scenes WITH it, this room tone would be in the center channel, right?

So dialogue, foley, footsteps, room tone would usually be in the center channel?

One more....I got these all bottled up in my head - dialogue reverb, another creative liberty as to making it a 5.1 reverb versus having it in the center?

Thanks Greg have a good night.

As a general rule I put room tone in the center or often I'll take a stereo room tone and collapse it with panners so it creates a center with side "shoulders". Room tone is kind of like spackle that smoothes out dialogue background noise and also connects it to the rest of the mix. I sometimes get 5.0 room tone, which I use out of respect for the editor's sense of aesthetics, but I'll generally push the center and then have the "shoulders" taper off so the center is dominant and the surrounds are lower than the sides.

In terms of panning foley, for main characters I just place it where the dialogue is. Generally the dialogue isn't panned too often because it gets distracting, but sometimes it is very effective. If there is no dialogue but there is some production movement and I want to pan the foley when say the character walks off screen, then I will try to convince the dialogue editor to pan the production sound as well so that it all moves together. Sometimes, even when the character is screen center I will pan the props if the character's hands are extended to the right or left or off screen, but you have to be careful that it doesn't sound phony. Generally I have to keep foley panning less broad than car bys, etc.

In "500 Days of Summer" there were a number of split screen sequences where we panned everything to one side or the other, but we didn't go very wide, just enough so that the audience could instinctively recognise which side the sound was attached to, but not enough so that anyone would catch what was going on with the panning. We wanted it to feel very natural and counteract the gimmicky nature of split screen. It was important to the story and the emotions of the character so, the split screen device was necessary, but we didn't want to underline it, we just wanted to avoid confusion.

[Lipflap]

Originally Posted by ggegan

I find that directors generally don't want to use ADR unless they absolutely have to. Performance trumps technical perfection, and very few actors are able to match on an ADR stage what they can achieve on set in terms of authenticity. Good ADR can match perfectly in terms of tone, voice quality and micing technique, but still not be preferable to production dialogue with technical issues because the nuances of performance and emotion aren't there. If a performance is good enough, the audience will filter out the technical problems.

I second Marti about the center channel spec you mention. That sounds bizarre and arbitrary.

I agree with Gary - and probably most mixers and dialogue editors: there's nothing like the original production sound. I'll often spot the ADR pretty aggressively, "just in case" I can get a decent read to sort out a problem I couldn't successfully resolve with alt takes, wild dialogue lines, or voodoo. My initial list can be pretty giant. The I run through my picks with the mixer (who in my case is often the ADR engineer, too) to see if he thinks he can save some of the lines I've called (hence, we don't need to loop those lines), or lines that he feels will he hopeless matches (no point beating a dead horse). Next, I review the list with the production to see how much of it they can afford to loop. That further narrows down the field.

We loop what we can or must. Still, despite being reasonably focused in what we actually record, a HUGE percentage of the lines end up getting dumped in the mix. Frustrating for me, but that's life.

At the end of the day, a vibrant, effective production performance that is cursed with some noise problems will always win out over a technically correct, in-sync, well-matched performance that doesn't shine like the original production sound.

[dsteinwedel]

Originally Posted by DynaForte

I've fortunately worked on movies for a video game companies

This explains (in some cases) the weird spec he's been seeing. Game developers will often request cinematics (aka Full Motion Video) be done with only DX in the center (including DX reverb return) for localization purposes.

A movie file will be encoded with X.1 channels. LRLsRs are used for SFX and MX. Multiple Center channels are added to the file, one for each language, and the specific language is chosen at runtime (depending on what language the player is using).

It's a common technique to save disc space (plus time and money) when having to cram multiple languages on a disc. It's definitely not done because we think it sounds better.

Cheers,
Dave

[ggegan]

Originally Posted by Lipflap

I agree with Gary - and probably most mixers and dialogue editors: there's nothing like the original production sound. I'll often spot the ADR pretty aggressively, "just in case" I can get a decent read to sort out a problem I couldn't successfully resolve with alt takes, wild dialogue lines, or voodoo. My initial list can be pretty giant. The I run through my picks with the mixer (who in my case is often the ADR engineer, too) to see if he thinks he can save some of the lines I've called (hence, we don't need to loop those lines), or lines that he feels will he hopeless matches (no point beating a dead horse). Next, I review the list with the production to see how much of it they can afford to loop. That further narrows down the field.

We loop what we can or must. Still, despite being reasonably focused in what we actually record, a HUGE percentage of the lines end up getting dumped in the mix. Frustrating for me, but that's life.

At the end of the day, a vibrant, effective production performance that is cursed with some noise problems will always win out over a technically correct, in-sync, well-matched performance that doesn't shine like the original production sound.

Years ago when I was an ADR mixer I did see some incredible work done when the director stood in front of the actors and fed lines to them and interacted with them so that the actor had a real person to respond to instead of just just trying to match the on screen line. The sync wasn't the best, but the performances were superb and because the ADR editor was really good, they were able to cut it into decent sync. Sometimes if the performance is strong enough, the audience will filter out minor sync problems because the delivery is so compelling. This however was a very rare experience and was so dependent on an extremely deep and trusting relationship between the director and the actor. I believe that most of the time when I saw this dynamic, the director had worked as an actor at one time. Also, when the director encouraged the actor to move while delivering the line seemed to help. It made for a less than pristine recording, but often a more authentic performance.

[Jfriah]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

There was a recent article about the sound of "Inglourious Basterds" in Post magazine. Tarantino absolutely insisted that all of the dialog be production sound. They would re-light, re-block or even re-shoot to get the production sound right.

The LOTR trilogy is reportedly about 90% ADR.




You may want to pick up "The Foley Grail" by Vanessa Ament. According to her you Foley just about everything. BTW, reading the book, watching the DVD and then re-reading the book expanded my Foley skills immensely.

Good points, Bob. (not going into my concerns about Basterds again) But if anyone has that Post article, I never did find it... would love to read it.

Jeff

[Jfriah]

Originally Posted by ggegan

Years ago when I was an ADR mixer I did see some incredible work done when the director stood in front of the actors and fed lines to them and interacted with them so that the actor had a real person to respond to instead of just just trying to match the on screen line. The sync wasn't the best, but the performances were superb and because the ADR editor was really good, they were able to cut it into decent sync. Sometimes if the performance is strong enough, the audience will filter out minor sync problems because the delivery is so compelling. This however was a very rare experience and was so dependent on an extremely deep and trusting relationship between the director and the actor. I believe that most of the time when I saw this dynamic, the director had worked as an actor at one time. Also, when the director encouraged the actor to move while delivering the line seemed to help. It made for a less than pristine recording, but often a more authentic performance.

<---- have also done my fair share of "non-standard" ADR recording sessions. One fave that comes to mind was a very 'method' actor who had to replace screaming because he was on fire. Well, after take 1, I had to go replace the music stand holding his sides, and a new set of headphones because he had flung them off his head. Great screams, though!

As well, a character had lines delivered before / after vomiting into a toilet. We went into the foley room and grabbed the toilet prop and the ADR had nice, believable sound because we recorded the actress bent over and got that nice toilet-y sound.