Searching for Monitors for Film Scoring?

[Bucko]

Hi, I am new here. I see some posts about these monitors but would like experience for the music I do. (Film composing, classical, pop, jazz) I don't have monitors now and was searching the Focal Solo 6be, Adams P11a, and Genelec 8040a. Any suggestions? Can't afford more than those which range from 1150 to 1195 each. Thank you

Bucko

[Spec]

i used the focal solos for about 8 - 9 months of almost exclusively piano and strings. imho they did not have the detail in the mids i was looking for and traded up to the PMC TB2A new they are about $500 above your current budget (new) i went with the active version as the d-class amps that come loaded with the TB2A that to my ears give lots of detail.

the below link is to the newer version TB2A which i suspect are more expensive than the version i and most others are using and still stock in most places with pmc gear.

PMC Ltd

The TB2A well worth looking at in terms of piano and strings and also superior low end compared to the solos imho. the pmc transmission line really does delivery a surprising amount of genuinely extended low distortion bass.

spek

but don't get me wrong the solos are o.k value and one could go a long way with them i just found for a little extra $$$ i got a lot more detail from the TB2A and would have saved myself $500 if i had gone with them in the beginning. v."natural " sounding to my ears and great with acoustic instruments.

ps the other monitor i have heard good things about for this type of production (which i have not hear myself )is the klein and hummel 0100 that i think would also fit your budget.

KLEIN + HUMMEL, O 110 - Active Studio Monitor

ps re: budget spend more now if you hear a sound you feel is right and in the long term save $$$

[imaginaryday]

for film, i would highly recommend you set aside some cash for a sub.

[Uncle Bob]

I have to ask...

Is your room treated/isolated?

[Spec]

oooppps. i take back what i said about the new pmc t(b2s-all) in terms of price.

they are actually retailing at about $3600 well above specified price point.

still not so hard to pick up the passive versions for a good price (TB2S). they even turn up every now and then in the in the gearslutz classifieds.

one could probably add the flying moles or other d-class amps yourself for about $1000 - $1200

i just really think the pmc TB2 are v. well suited to jazz instruments, strings, piano.

also really deep and wide sound stage.

spek

[ruy]

do you need stereo or 5.1?

how big is yor room?

[Bucko]

Hi,

My room will be a little bit of both, teated and isolated. I plan to get a sub sometime afterwards. Room size is about 14 X 14. Thanks

Bucko

[Bucko]

Hi again

I will eventually put up some foam but there will also be empty wall space.
Stereo not 5.1. I might in the future. I actually heard the Gen 8040a and the Adams P11a at Guitar Ctr. Both are great but leaned toward the Adams. More spacious but brighter in the treble. Sometimes too much with cymbals but very open which was nice. Gens were somewhat muddy in the low mids but more focused. Not enough to decide on them though. I am leaning right now towards the Adams. I will try to find a place that carries the PMC and the others. Still have to listen to the Focals. Thanks
Bucko

[jhorsley]

For treating your room, I would look in to gik acoustics. You have to be careful with using foam, because it can absorb all the high end and still leave the mud. Especially in a 14x14 room, I would consider using the GIK traps to create some angles and some absorbtion.

I bought the older model genelec 1031a's at an auction for about $1000 a piece. See if you can find that kinid of deal on ebay. Some film mixers do not like Genelecs, but as far as I can tell they are all crazy! No, just kidding. It's a matter of personal preference.

No matter what speakers you get, you MUST address the acoustic environment or accurate monitoring will not happen.

And yes, a sub will be very useful as soon as you can afford it.

[Etch-A-Sketch]

have you looked into Dynaudio?

Also, the ADAMs speakers tend to get ugly in the bottom end. The tweeter is great, but the porting in the cabinet facing forward distorts the low end. A Sine Wave at 80Hz can turn into a saw wave. I had a pair for evaluation for about a week. Noticed the distortion on the bottom end on just about every style of music, including the orchestral trailer stuff I was doing. All the low drones sounded distorted and "farty" for lack of a better word. It was extremely annoying. I eventually brought them back and got another pair thinking there was something wrong... still the same problem. It has to do with the bass porting. Sending sine wave sweeps through it helped me identify that it was the port. Really focus on the bottom end, bring in some stuff with low freq drones in it and listen intently to what happens. Maybe they've changed the porting since I tested them out to combat this, I don't know? But when I checked them out a few years ago they were useless for just about everything I was doing.

[Bucko]

Hi Derek,

I did look at the Dyn BM6 mkII. Very nice but wanted more so I went with the ones I mentioned. Does the Dynaudio have something in the price range I am looking at? 1150 to 1250 each that is outstanding?

I did like the bass on the Adams P11a. I thought the instruments were very forward compared to the Gen 8040a. I collect soundtracks and listen to a few. (Telarc-Erich Kunzel-Cincinnati Pops-Star Tracks CD and Time Warp CD. (Lists a caution not to play too loud or speakers don't blow out) Nice bass on the Adams. Open sound. Listen to Raiders, Star Wars End Title, Superman, Star Trek the Motion Picture, orig. Battlestar Galactica. Also Pagani Violin Concertos, Chaka Khan, Eva Cassidy and other soundtracks. Maybe I wasn't listening to closely. I don't know.

Bucko

[Big Andy]

Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch

...Also, the ADAMs speakers tend to get ugly in the bottom end...

What model were you testing? My home studio is running 5 ADAM A-7s and a Sub 8 and I've never had a single issue with them. I actually find the low end as articulate as what is coming out of my tweeters. Granted, I just got this set less than a year ago. Perhaps they made some improvements.

[Brent_in_Sydney]

Shameless plug for speakers I love:
If you are interested in PMC transmission line speakers (personally I love their imaging) don't forget Digi do the RM1 and RM2 co-branded versions of PMC which could fit into your budget.
The RM1s in surround are quite stunning.
Digidesign Reference Monitor Series Speakers

[ruy]

+1 with the comment about bass traps, better value and results than foam.

monitors are a very personal choice and it really depends more of what you are comfortable with, some for example translate very well, but give you fatigue if you use them for long periods of time. i used to have b&w 805's with a matrix sub when i worked exclusively on music, but i wouldn't recommend that unless you are really accustomed to them, now i have them at home and switched to dynaudio bm6 and a bm12s sub in my studio. i tried the mkII and i think the old model is better. they are under 1k each. the bm15a's are definitively better if you can afford them, but might give you problems if you have 5 of them in a room your size.

this link might be useful:
http://content.grammy.com/PDFs/Recor...mendations.pdf

[nick-the-sax]

i do music for film (although not much orchestral stuff). treatment is ESSENTIAL!!!!!

but i use some genelec 8030 monitors and they're great for me. occasionally a bit ambiguous in the mid-range, but overall very good and they have a pretty good low end extension, considering their size!

[Etch-A-Sketch]

Originally Posted by Big Andy

What model were you testing? My home studio is running 5 ADAM A-7s and a Sub 8 and I've never had a single issue with them. I actually find the low end as articulate as what is coming out of my tweeters. Granted, I just got this set less than a year ago. Perhaps they made some improvements.

The subwoofer is what is fixing the problem for you. I originally noticed this with the A7's. Disconnect the subwoofer... start sending sine waves from a signal generator through them. Start at 100Hz and then go down... notice what starts to happen between 70Hz and 80Hz? and it continues down until the speaker can't reproduce sound anymore (I think they go down to around 40Hz if my memory serves me).

Putting a subwoofer in puts the crossover somewhere between 80 and 120 Hz depending on where you have it set... in that case the bottom end isn't being sent to the speaker so you don't hear this acoustic anomaly.

The P11 exhibits the same problems because it uses the same port design. While I didn't test them in depth, after finding the problem with the A7, I could hear the same problem in the P11 and the S2A at my dealer's showroom and on even on the NAMM show floor!

It is based on the size of the port and the internal volume of the cabinet. If the port is bigger, or there are two ports (like they've started doing on some models) or the size/shape of the cabinet is different (like they are doing with the SX series) then these problems might be less noticeable.

This is also why most manufacturers put the bass port on the back of the unit. If you stand behind the adam speaker you don't really notice this since it's a distortion of the air coming out of the port. It's also why companies like KRK, when using forward facing ports, DO NOT use round ports. Instead they use rectangular ports that are very wide and not very tall.

[Etch-A-Sketch]

Originally Posted by Big Andy

Granted, I just got this set less than a year ago. Perhaps they made some improvements.

That could also be very true... like I said in my previous post, if they change the internal volume (space) of the porting inside the cabinet this could/will go away. So it is possible they found a way to remedy the problem. I would be interested if they still exhibit this acoustic anomaly. If you get a second try it. You can use any signal generator plugin or soft synth that can create a sine wave. keep changing the freq starting at around 100Hz and going down. somewhere right around 70 or 80 Hz you'll notice the sound starts to "fart" for lack of a better description. It's actually distortion of the air flow out of the port, if you put your hand in front of the port you can feel the air start to stutter. and it will keep doing it and get worse as you go lower and lower.

If you get a chance, try it and see. I'd be interested to know if they finally fixed it because I made a big stink about it a few years ago.

[Big Andy]

Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch

That could also be very true... like I said in my previous post, if they change the internal volume (space) of the porting inside the cabinet this could/will go away. So it is possible they found a way to remedy the problem. I would be interested if they still exhibit this acoustic anomaly. If you get a second try it. You can use any signal generator plugin or soft synth that can create a sine wave. keep changing the freq starting at around 100Hz and going down. somewhere right around 70 or 80 Hz you'll notice the sound starts to "fart" for lack of a better description. It's actually distortion of the air flow out of the port, if you put your hand in front of the port you can feel the air start to stutter. and it will keep doing it and get worse as you go lower and lower.

If you get a chance, try it and see. I'd be interested to know if they finally fixed it because I made a big stink about it a few years ago.

I'll do a test tomorrow to see if I can detect anything. But, I'm not using the sub in the main chain for cross over, so I still tend to think it got fixed. I'll let you know in the am.

[Micah Tolentino]

Have you tried Blue Sky? I heard they use them at Lucas Arts. I've only heard them once or twice but have known people to swear by them.

[Big Andy]

Originally Posted by Micah Tolentino

Have you tried Blue Sky? I heard they use them at Lucas Arts. I've only heard them once or twice but have known people to swear by them.

I've used Blue Skys a number of times. They sound good, but I personally think that their Bass Management system is a little off. In a small room, 12'W 14-16'L 8'H, the bass sounds great. The moment you get it into a theater or even on a tv it seems like my speakers are going to blow. I'm getting my composers mixes from a guy who mixes on a blue sky system and i listened to the music in my car and it rattled my rear window. The song was a string octet. THAT NEVER HAPPENS!

So, that is just my experience.... but if calibrated properly I'm sure they would translate well too.

Now on to business, I tested out my A7s running a frequency sweep slowly from 1000 down to 20Hz. Once I got below 50Hz I got a very slight push pull feeling. Hardly enough for me to pick up. But no distortion. The Push Pull is a bit of an issue, but not enough for me to go out and buy new monitors. It sounded plump and round. I got a nice surprise while doing this though. I found that the freq response stuck around until about 27Hz. NICE

[dr.sound]

Originally Posted by Big Andy

I've used Blue Skys a number of times. They sound good, but I personally think that their Bass Management system is a little off. In a small room, 12'W 14-16'L 8'H, the bass sounds great. The moment you get it into a theater or even on a tv it seems like my speakers are going to blow. I'm getting my composers mixes from a guy who mixes on a blue sky system and i listened to the music in my car and it rattled my rear window. The song was a string octet. THAT NEVER HAPPENS!

So, that is just my experience.... but if calibrated properly I'm sure they would translate well too.

Now on to business, I tested out my A7s running a frequency sweep slowly from 1000 down to 20Hz. Once I got below 50Hz I got a very slight push pull feeling. Hardly enough for me to pick up. But no distortion. The Push Pull is a bit of an issue, but not enough for me to go out and buy new monitors. It sounded plump and round. I got a nice surprise while doing this though. I found that the freq response stuck around until about 27Hz. NICE

Andy,
Your room size is the problem.
You need a much better room!

[Big Andy]

Originally Posted by dr.sound

Andy,
Your room size is the problem.
You need a much better room!

Very true. What is the calculation. It takes 22.5" for a 50Hz wave to form. And my sound proofing and bass traps in this room are no match for waves that long. I'm probably hearing nulls and boosts from waves slapping all over the place.

Good call Marti

[Etch-A-Sketch]

Originally Posted by Big Andy

Now on to business, I tested out my A7s running a frequency sweep slowly from 1000 down to 20Hz. Once I got below 50Hz I got a very slight push pull feeling. Hardly enough for me to pick up. But no distortion. The Push Pull is a bit of an issue, but not enough for me to go out and buy new monitors. It sounded plump and round. I got a nice surprise while doing this though. I found that the freq response stuck around until about 27Hz. NICE

Awesome! thanks andy for taking the time to do that. I'll have to get a pair in here to check out again. I loved the tweeter. thanks!

[Bucko]

Hi all,

Me again. I heard the Focal Solo 6 and Twins today. Both sound amazing but Twins a little more bass and handle the bass better. No big differences though. So now I have the Adam P11a, (Maybe 22a) the Solos or Twins on my mind. Gennies 8040a are out. Will probably make a purchase after Thanksgiving or XMAS. Whew! Love the Twins, Clean, tight and my ears don't fatigue after listening to them for a long time. Just have to cash out extra $.

Adams I check out 3 weeks ago at Guitar Center have a nice sound dispersion/imaging. Instruments really pop out. Twins, Solos everything sounds even, well balanced. UGH! choices.... Thanks for the inputs and keep them coming. I will read from time to time.

[Bucko]

Hi,

I went back to Guitar Center to listen to the Adams P11a again. This time I played 2 CDs with very low bass. Star Trek Themes on the Telarc label. called Symphonic Star Trek. Track 9 was a special effects track and the Adams did not make the grade. In fact they shut off (luckily there is clipping mechanism that shuts them off otherwise the woofer would have been blown) The Focals Twins did handle it ok. Solos had a brief buzzy sound but manage to pass.

Andrew Lloyd Webber's Requiem, Track 2, very beginning. The Adams P11a buzzed, then we tested it on the S3A just to see if other monitors could handle it and no, the S3A putted out in the bass and almost shut off. The guy at Guitar Center was shocked and thought it would handle it. He didn't want me to play that part again. I didn't get hear to this CD on the Solos or Twins.

[drBill]

I'd suggest you look at the JBL LSR series. Especially with a "challenged" room. I've heard their room correction software that's built into the speakers, and it works very well. I have the older LSR28P's and they have translated phenomenally. thumbsupthumbsup

[nightscope]

Klein & Neumann

ns

[JohnRodd]

I would echo the comments that room treatment is * very * important.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Don't forget about Audiogon for GREAT! deals on speakers and amplifiers. AudiogoN: Speakers: For Sale

My mentor, who does a whole lot of post, is all Genelec with the Genelec subs. I have attended a few sessions at his studio and these speakers are amazing. They are the earlier 1031s. (which is what the Mackies are based on) I have a pair of 1030s which I use for remote location work. It is all a matter of what sounds true to you and you can use to make judgment calls on for mixing.

Our main speakers are the ALON IVs which can be picked up used for about the price you are quoting and have some money left over for the power amp (Bryston suggested). Here are some user reviews of them.Acarian Systems Alon IV Reviews

Best of luck in your search.

[funkpolbrother]

If you're still looking for monitors, I have 3 Genelec 8040a's (LCR) and matching 7060B Subwoofer I'm looking to sell....I'll sell the set for $4000....pm me if you are interested.